Thread: Little Lost on Lossless and PCM Stereo

Posts: 55
Page: prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 next

Post by jerrygene March 14, 2013 (21 of 55)
Thanks..have the CD's of ELP on Victory and am an old admirer of ELP...I can well imagine Wilson's work on them...actually would get when available Trilogy and Brain Salad....probably Pictues, Tarkus and the 1st as well...post Brain Salad I kind of lost interest but still have the CD's.
Thanks,

Post by rammiepie March 14, 2013 (22 of 55)
jerrygene said:

Thanks..have the CD's of ELP on Victory and am an old admirer of ELP...I can well imagine Wilson's work on them...actually would get when available Trilogy and Brain Salad....probably Pictues, Tarkus and the 1st as well...post Brain Salad I kind of lost interest but still have the CD's.
Thanks,

You might also appreciate Steve Wilson's recent Jethro Tull Thick As A Brick remaster....there's a remixed stereo track in hi~rez and a great sounding DTS 5.1 surround mix. Sounds simply amazing!

Aqualung is also available, mixed by Mr. Wilson, as part of a pricey box set but included is a Blu~Ray disc with full hi~rez stereo and 5.1 surround mixes. Don't have it yet but it's been receiving rave reviews.

Post by jerrygene March 14, 2013 (23 of 55)
rammiepie said:

You might also appreciate Steve Wilson's recent Jethro Tull Thick As A Brick remaster....there's a remixed stereo track in hi~rez and a great sounding DTS 5.1 surround mix. Sounds simply amazing!

Aqualung is also available, mixed by Mr. Wilson, as part of a pricey box set but included is a Blu~Ray disc with full hi~rez stereo and 5.1 surround mixes. Don't have it yet but it's been receiving rave reviews.

Funny I was listening to Brick and will probably upgrade also the 40th Aqualung which to begin with was a recording mess....the 2 cd set is about 19 $. I do have Crimsons's Court Box and will also venture to the Larks' box once it drops considerably,the 2 disc version is excellent .
I listen to all types of music and have a bunch of SACD's and when the audio technica's arrive tomorrow I will be able to appreciate better sound despite being happier with the current 3 Polks,Oppo and Onkyo that replaced my older Philips SACDBD changer that I use as well.
Surround may be next although our living room is congested with sofas,piano,and I may not be able to do it unless I get a sound bar which I am considering but questioning which puts me at a disadvantage since the CD software suddenly becomes downgraded...despite having them.
The Yes CTTE SACD by Hoffman is getting non partial reviews...may get it.....one SACD I will get is Santana's Caravanserai ....
I do want to explore Porcupine Tree just set up a Pandora channel....
.

Post by rammiepie March 14, 2013 (24 of 55)
jerrygene, Santana's Caravanserai and Love, Devotion & Surrender (Santana with John McLaughlin) from MoFi are excellent as is Audio Fidelity's Close To The Edge.

My only caveat with Aqualung is having to spend over $100 just to get the Blu~Ray (don't need the vinyl, nor the booklet, nor the 2 CDs).

Soundbars are OK but wouldn't consider one as a center channel as they should be matched across the front. There are some very expensive soundbars which deliver but better off matching the three front speakers as some SACDs are three channel and if they're not perfectly matched you won't be happy with the result.

Porcupine Tree has some great (and relatively inexpensive) DVD~As (also Steve Wilson mixes) but listen first to see if they're to your liking. I do have all of the Porcupine Tree DVD~As and love them. Surround masterpieces.

Post by Kutyatest March 15, 2013 (25 of 55)
jerrygene said:

Thanks..have the CD's of ELP on Victory and am an old admirer of ELP...I can well imagine Wilson's work on them...actually would get when available Trilogy and Brain Salad....probably Pictues, Tarkus and the 1st as well...post Brain Salad I kind of lost interest but still have the CD's.
Thanks,

Last year I replaced my Castle label ELP and Tarkus CDs with the Steve Wilson mixed DVD-A/CD sets. The difference between the new Steve Wilson ELP CDs and my old Castle label CDs was night and day. I have all the other ELP albums on CD (except Brain Salad Surgery - which I have on DVD-A), most unfortunately also on Castle label. They are all fairly dull and two-dimensional CDs - such a pity. If I knew that Steve Wilson was going to work on more ELP albums (and from what I've read, he isn't), I'd get shot of them. In lieu of more Steve Wilson DVD-A/CD sets, I might consider replacing them with them with better-sounding CDs (horror!). Is anyone able to recommend some good-sounding ELP CDs?

Until it was announced that Steve Wilson wouldn't be working on the remaainder of the ELP catalogue, I was looking forward very much to hearing what he'd do with Pictures at an Exhibition - and although the later albums are not generally well-liked by many, I quite like Keith Emerson's Piano Concerto No. 1 on Works Vol. 1. Just sounds flat on my Castle CD!

Post by jerrygene March 15, 2013 (26 of 55)
rammiepie said:

jerrygene, Santana's Caravanserai and Love, Devotion & Surrender (Santana with John McLaughlin) from MoFi are excellent as is Audio Fidelity's Close To The Edge.

My only caveat with Aqualung is having to spend over $100 just to get the Blu~Ray (don't need the vinyl, nor the booklet, nor the 2 CDs).

Soundbars are OK but wouldn't consider one as a center channel as they should be matched across the front. There are some very expensive soundbars which deliver but better off matching the three front speakers as some SACDs are three channel and if they're not perfectly matched you won't be happy with the result.

Porcupine Tree has some great (and relatively inexpensive) DVD~As (also Steve Wilson mixes) but listen first to see if they're to your liking. I do have all of the Porcupine Tree DVD~As and love them. Surround masterpieces.

rammipie, glad you endorse Santana and LDS and the new Yes..
Well maybe Tull box will drop and I will get it if so...for now will make do with my 3 speakers and am awaiting the headphones today so I can listen closely.
In regard to the SACD settings on my Oppo ....I have the SACD Priority set on Stereo, there is also a CD Mode...which works where?
The SACD output I have set to DSD with PCM as an option....
I have not fiddled around just got the 103 2 weeks ago....
How do I maximize sound on CD's, SACD,or BDA's.....on 2nd thought it is logical that CD mode should be set to any Cd or SACD...with stereo setting for radio or TV? Does this process change automatically ? Or do I change each audio format accordingly?

Post by jerrygene March 15, 2013 (27 of 55)
Kutyatest said:

Last year I replaced my Castle label ELP and Tarkus CDs with the Steve Wilson mixed DVD-A/CD sets. The difference between the new Steve Wilson ELP CDs and my old Castle label CDs was night and day. I have all the other ELP albums on CD (except Brain Salad Surgery - which I have on DVD-A), most unfortunately also on Castle label. They are all fairly dull and two-dimensional CDs - such a pity. If I knew that Steve Wilson was going to work on more ELP albums (and from what I've read, he isn't), I'd get shot of them. In lieu of more Steve Wilson DVD-A/CD sets, I might consider replacing them with them with better-sounding CDs (horror!). Is anyone able to recommend some good-sounding ELP CDs?

Until it was announced that Steve Wilson wouldn't be working on the remaainder of the ELP catalogue, I was looking forward very much to hearing what he'd do with Pictures at an Exhibition - and although the later albums are not generally well-liked by many, I quite like Keith Emerson's Piano Concerto No. 1 on Works Vol. 1. Just sounds flat on my Castle CD!

I remember Pictures being brought home on LP as a kid, like it a lot and in readings seems that the live quality was found more acceptable to listeners when comparing to the other CD releases....I have the Victory releases of all their CD's, Welcome Back as well and their Manticore box set and think the box are the single Victor versions.., which is Rhino I think....
Too bad Wilson won't likely do Trilogy ...love those chimes on Enigma and despite being their mainstream piece I like it a lot....Brain is a complex of sound and presentation and could use attention....Most I read prefer the latter day Rhino versions after the Victory's. Rhino redid them prior to the new Wilson ones ...I could be wrong. Maybe Castle are Victory's ?....will check later....

Post by rammiepie March 15, 2013 (28 of 55)
jerrygene said:

rammipie, glad you endorse Santana and LDS and the new Yes..
Well maybe Tull box will drop and I will get it if so...for now will make do with my 3 speakers and am awaiting the headphones today so I can listen closely.
In regard to the SACD settings on my Oppo ....I have the SACD Priority set on Stereo, there is also a CD Mode...which works where?
The SACD output I have set to DSD with PCM as an option....
I have not fiddled around just got the 103 2 weeks ago....
How do I maximize sound on CD's, SACD,or BDA's.....on 2nd thought it is logical that CD mode should be set to any Cd or SACD...with stereo setting for radio or TV? Does this process change automatically ? Or do I change each audio format accordingly?

Regarding RBCD playback on the OPPO 103, it's probably preferable to use a coaxial output into your receiver and bypass HDMI for playback of such. Setting the player to DSD output is fine and since you don't have a center nor surround speakers, outputting SACD playback to stereo is also correct.

As far as BD audio and BD video discs since most (but not all) are encoded with surround (5.1 or 7.1) as well as stereo options, just select stereo on the BD menu.

One thing, I just learned this week. HDMI out 1 is preferable for video (utilizes the internal OPPO enhanced video settings) and HDMI 2 is preferable for audio. In order to utilize both a video monitor and the audio output of my OPPO BDP~105, I set the HDMI output to Split A/V which outputs HDMI to both my audio processor and video monitor. If you're using only one HDMI output to your receiver and want the enhanced video, use HDMI 1. However, plugging the HDMI directly into your TV monitor may result in better video since it will be bypassing the receiver's internal video processing. Try both approaches and see which you prefer.

Post by Fitzcaraldo215 March 15, 2013 (29 of 55)
rammiepie said:

I was really referring to LPCM vs. PCM in which case, one is lossless and one is lossy (as Fitz correctly pointed out DD, DTS and MP3......all variants, except the latter, of 16/44.1.......

And if 16 bit 44.1 isn't lossy....then why the need for 20, 24 bit or SACD........?

But I do understand the gist that pcm by itself is NOT lossy just the amount of bits which eke it out of the doldrums of lower fidelity hell.

Oh, it's all so academic to me anyway. Which is why I love my Meridians.......they even manage to make lossy codecs sound much better than they should.

Wrong again. PCM is not lossy. LPCM and PCM are one and the same. Lossy codecs are perceptually doctored to make up for their lack of bandwidth and much lower resolution.

You are confusing "lossy", which has a specific meaning with regard to certain compression/decompression schemes, with resolution. If a CD was recorded using 44k/16 bit ADC's, as they all once were, then the resulting CD is not lossy. It contains all the bits from the original conversion from analog. Nowadays, most CDs are recorded using higher resolution converters, then downrezzed to RBCD. But, this is not "lossy", as there is no compression/decompression involved.

It may be all semantics to you, but you are smearing and distorting the concepts. Admittedly, there are similarities between lossy codecs and downrezzing. Both result in lower resolutions than the original. But, "lossy" commonly refers to compression/decompression codecs operating at hundreds of Hz. No one but you refers to RBCD resolution at 44,000 Hz or higher PCM resolutions as "lossy". That only confuses matters. You might as well refer to all recording and playback schemes, even at the highest of resolutions, as "lossy" since even they do not fully reproduce a totally accurate. replica of the live sound. Though, as we know, the higher the resolution and bit depth, the closer the sound resembles the original live musical event, albeit with sharply dimished returns for higher resolutions.

Post by Bradman March 15, 2013 (30 of 55)
And why is Coax preferable to HDMI for RBCD playback?

Page: prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 next

Closed