Thread: Surround pre-amp recommendations

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Post by onenairb June 11, 2013 (1 of 14)
I presently have a Linn Kisto surround processor. Most of my system is Linn apart from my Oppo 95. I still have my Unidisk 1.1 as it beats the Oppo on surround (well I never managed to configure the Oppo to sound as good as the Uni in surround) hands down although I think the Oppo sounds better on stereo.
The Kisto does not handle the latest DTS, Dolby HD formats, nor have HDMI support either and since Linn seam to have no plans for a successor I have being thinking of changing. The Kisto is a superb piece of kit but I was wondering if you have any advice for a comparable surround amp that supports the latest audio options for movies and even native support for DSD via HDMI (not DSD to PCM over HDMI).
I guess the market I am looking at is the Classe, Lexicon, Krell, Cary, Bryston etc .
Is there anything currently in development from manufactirers that I should be considering/waiting for? 4K or 8K support?
Any thoughts on any products would be very much appreciated.

Post by hifirene June 11, 2013 (2 of 14)
Just look for a Primare SP33 HD, ore the Primare SPA23HD with pre-output.

Post by Windsurfer June 11, 2013 (3 of 14)
I have an Integra 80.3

It has amazing capabilities I am only just beginning to explore.

Post by Fitzcaraldo215 June 11, 2013 (4 of 14)
onenairb said:

I presently have a Linn Kisto surround processor. Most of my system is Linn apart from my Oppo 95. I still have my Unidisk 1.1 as it beats the Oppo on surround (well I never managed to configure the Oppo to sound as good as the Uni in surround) hands down although I think the Oppo sounds better on stereo.
The Kisto does not handle the latest DTS, Dolby HD formats, nor have HDMI support either and since Linn seam to have no plans for a successor I have being thinking of changing. The Kisto is a superb piece of kit but I was wondering if you have any advice for a comparable surround amp that supports the latest audio options for movies and even native support for DSD via HDMI (not DSD to PCM over HDMI).
I guess the market I am looking at is the Classe, Lexicon, Krell, Cary, Bryston etc .
Is there anything currently in development from manufactirers that I should be considering/waiting for? 4K or 8K support?
Any thoughts on any products would be very much appreciated.

I have not heard everything, but Kal Rubinson has reviewed many of the prepros you mentioned in depth, and several more. Check out his Music in the Round column at the Stereophile site. His favorite, incidentally, is the very costly Meridian.

I will once again get on my soapbox about a key feature of breakthrough proportions, which is DSP Room EQ (REQ). Every one I know who has heard it in a properly set up system (some are not) easily agrees that it is an essential improvement, not to be done without. I myself would only consider a prepro with one of the following 3 REQ systems on board, which are arguably today's best in the consumer marketplace: Audyssey MultEQ XT/32 (not lesser versions of Audyssey), Anthem ARC or Lyngdorf. I am sure that the 3 differ somewhat in how they go about tackling the speaker/room issue, but I think they all deliver comparable results. I have seen or heard nothing that convinces me one is head and shoulders above the others, though marketing and dealer hype might hope to convey a different impression.

XT/32 appears on the top Onkyo/Integras, the Marantz 8801 and the Denon. ARC's best implementation is on the Anthem D2V. Lyngdorf appears on their pricey P1 (requiring Lyngdorf external digital amps) and also on the McIntosh MX 151 and discontinued MX 150. Any of those might be good choices. The Marantz is Kal's second favorite, and it would save you quite a bit of money compared to all but the Onkyo/Integra. Two close friends have the Anthem D2V, and it is quite good, but sonically comparable to my relatively inexpensive Integra 80.2, except via the analog inputs, where it is superior to the Integra - of zero importance to me. The McIntosh would be the way to go for Lyngdorf while using your existing amps.

If interested, I can introduce you to a bloke in Bournemouth with a very fine Denon and XT/32 setup, using Quad 'stats. I have not heard it, but I am sure it is quite good. I am also sure he would welcome you for a visit. It is tough to audition Mch prepros here in the US with music, but it seems even tougher in the UK.

DSD support via HDMI is something that apparently only the Japanese prepros above support. But, I do not use it, though I could, as REQ makes a much bigger sonic improvement. It is not close in my system and room. REQ, of course, operates in PCM mode, so pure DSD and REQ are mutually exclusive, as is the prepro' DSP bass management and subwoofer support, also quite essential, in my view.

You will have to pass on 4/8k. The HDMI version 2.0 to support 4K is still far from finalized, so no gear is ready for it today. Even so, 4K players, when they eventually appear, are likely to have multiple HDMI outputs, so the 4K one could be routed directly to the display or projector, once those become available with HDMI 2.0. My question is will 4k disks have new and improved features, such as additional sound channels, e.g., discrete height? Time will tell, but that would likely require a brand new prepro to gain the incremental advantages of such developments. I believe that 8k is a pipe dream unlikely to have any consumer presence in my lifetime. I'm no spring chicken, you see. Even native 4k is a ways off, though upscaled 4k from 2k sources is beginning to appear for early, bleeding edge adopters on displays guaranteed to be obsolete in short order. That has zero interest to me currently. And, of course, none of this has any relevance to SACD, for which the playback capabilities are and have been fully mature for a number of years.

From a personal perspective, the switch I made to hi Rez, to Mch and to REQ, all simultaneously, over 5 years ago were absolutely a life changing experience. That began after the first 30 seconds of listening to the newly set up system in my home. It is also true that the change sonically utterly obliterated my very fine, carefully updated and tweaked stereo at the time, the front end of which had cost many times what the lowly Integra and Oppo player I got had cost. I have upgraded my front end since, still Integra and Oppo, but that has proven to be a real eye opener about the pretensions, limitations and poor value of high, high end gear. I have listened to many very costly stereos over the years, some costing well into the $200 - $400k price range, some in reviewers' homes, others carefully set up by the manufacturers at dealerships. None comes remotely close, in my view, to delivering the realism compared to the live concerts I frequently attend as does my lowly, by comparison, setup. Reverse snobbery, perhaps? Yes, but not about speakers or, to a degree, even amps. Other music loving, live concert attendees I know quite well have had a similar experience. We all love our Oppo players in Mch via HDMI feeding various prepros with top notch REQ and subwoofers, even in systems costing up to about $100k.

Post by Fugue June 11, 2013 (5 of 14)
I love my Marantz 8801. It ha fantastic sound and handles every type of hi-rez signal that I can ever imagine needing. I would not mind another analog input (or even some s-vhs) for some older analog video gear I own, but that's its only shortcoming that I can detect.

Post by Iain June 12, 2013 (6 of 14)
Fitzcaraldo215 said:

..........

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XT/32 appears on the top Onkyo/Integras, the Marantz 8801 and the Denon. .........

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For Denon, it's on AVR-4520 and the new X4000 to be specific.

Post by sylvian June 12, 2013 (7 of 14)
Windsurfer said:

I have an Integra 80.3

It has amazing capabilities I am only just beginning to explore.

Yes, I am also for that one. :-)

Physically fits to OPPO 105 (as a bonus)

Post by Fitzcaraldo215 June 12, 2013 (8 of 14)
Iain said:

For Denon, it's on AVR-4520 and the new X4000 to be specific.

Yes, but those are receivers, not preamp/processors. Denon makes only one prepro at the moment.

Post by Visualista June 12, 2013 (9 of 14)
I can wholeheartedly recommend the Integra 80.3 as well. My experience regarding Audyssey room-correction mirrors Fitzcarraldo's also.

Post by kaalkop June 12, 2013 (10 of 14)
Fitzcaraldo215 said:

Denon makes only one prepro at the moment.

I checked Denon's website, can't find it.

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