Thread: Sony player has problems reading hybrid SACD discs.

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Post by bnimks October 4, 2006 (11 of 30)
I've had problems with Philips 763SA, Denon 2900, 3910 and Onkyo DV1000. On Philips and Denon I got new transport , but it only functioned a couple of months and then the players would not read 60% of my SACDs. The Onkyo worked for 6 months before it stopped working. It seems to be a problem if I use the player on a daily basis. The Philips worked for a year, probably because I only had a few SACDs then. Denon players worked 2-3 months before they stopped working and the Onkyo worked 6 months. It is getting rather annoying. Maybe one should forget this technology because it looks like it is a beta version of a unfinished technology. By the way, hybrids are worst.

Post by Polly Nomial October 4, 2006 (12 of 30)
bnimks said:

I've had problems with Philips 763SA, Denon 2900, 3910 and Onkyo DV1000. On Philips and Denon I got new transport , but it only functioned a couple of months and then the players would not read 60% of my SACDs. The Onkyo worked for 6 months before it stopped working. It seems to be a problem if I use the player on a daily basis. The Philips worked for a year, probably because I only had a few SACDs then. Denon players worked 2-3 months before they stopped working and the Onkyo worked 6 months. It is getting rather annoying. Maybe one should forget this technology because it looks like it is a beta version of a unfinished technology. By the way, hybrids are worst.

With all the problems on so many different players, I would suggest that the discs need cleaning. This is in no way an unfinished technology.

Post by mcchuk October 4, 2006 (13 of 30)
Polly Nomial said:

With all the problems on so many different players, I would suggest that the discs need cleaning. This is in no way an unfinished technology.

I was having similiar problems with the Yamaha S-1700 Universal Player. I have about 4 SACD's that were not reading properly.

I have just bought the Cambridge Audio DVD-87 Universal player and it plays all the SACD's that I was having problems with. It has a much simpler design and the sound quality for SACD's and DVD-Audio's is top notch. I highly recommend this unit or the more recent DVD-89 Universal player.

I only paid $300 CAD for this unit. The dealer I bought this unit from says that very few come back for repairs. It seems the more complex the software is that drives these units that more apt you are to have problems.

I have also had the Philips 963SA SACD player in the past. This unit had problems with most of the same SACD's. Philips was making some the same the components that were used in the Yamaha S-1700 unit.

Post by bnimks October 5, 2006 (14 of 30)
Polly Nomial said:

With all the problems on so many different players, I would suggest that the discs need cleaning. This is in no way an unfinished technology.

Discs have been cleaned. But I've not tried lens cleaning which I've seen suggested. SACD is maybe more demanding than DVD and CD, regarding the lens.

Post by raffells October 5, 2006 (15 of 30)
bnimks said:

Discs have been cleaned. But I've not tried lens cleaning which I've seen suggested. SACD is maybe more demanding than DVD and CD, regarding the lens.

I tend to agree that the discs need cleaning,especially around the inner centre circle where the TOC table of content is.Right next to the see thru plastic ..I know of a case when the button to set CD as a priority was pressed and this caused a similair problem except when single layer discs were inserted..Also a wobbly support does not help or having the unit not flat.The biggest problem would be heat in the Sony units were known to soften the lens container and it caused the focussing to go out of alignment.However three different machines seems against the odds.
I would also check for something weird like equipment nearby ? TV or other equipment dimmer switches ?
The focusing of the DVD type sacd lazer is approx ten times mores stringent than CD.It is probably at its tightest near the centre (start) of the disc.

I posted a question on the forum about cleaning and polishing with no real response..Since then I have been doing some testing (not yet complete) and it DOES have an effect..beneficial.maybe a report to follow..

If all else fails..you have planty of customers on ebay awaiting these discs...Dave

Post by Claude October 5, 2006 (16 of 30)
On Audio Asylum, some users have successfully solved drop-out problems with hybrid SACDs by removing static electricity from the discs (put the disc between aluminium foil sheets before using it).

It has helped on a few of my problematic hybrids.

Post by bnimks October 5, 2006 (17 of 30)
raffells said:

I tend to agree that the discs need cleaning,especially around the inner centre circle where the TOC table of content is.Right next to the see thru plastic ..I know of a case when the button to set CD as a priority was pressed and this caused a similair problem except when single layer discs were inserted..Also a wobbly support does not help or having the unit not flat.The biggest problem would be heat in the Sony units were known to soften the lens container and it caused the focussing to go out of alignment.However three different machines seems against the odds.
I would also check for something weird like equipment nearby ? TV or other equipment dimmer switches ?
The focusing of the DVD type sacd lazer is approx ten times mores stringent than CD.It is probably at its tightest near the centre (start) of the disc.

I posted a question on the forum about cleaning and polishing with no real response..Since then I have been doing some testing (not yet complete) and it DOES have an effect..beneficial.maybe a report to follow..

If all else fails..you have planty of customers on ebay awaiting these discs...Dave

I have moved the player 7 feet away from my crt-tv and removed a light dimmer of the reasons you mention. Powercord is new, new interconnects and better, more solid (heavy) rack. I've just talked with my repair man who tolf me that the the laser in my Onkyo had 'burned out'. He also told that the laser-module was a Sony-product and not the more solid things used earlier by Onkyo. I still think that cleaning of the lens and maybe machine aided cleaning of the records could help.

Post by raffells October 5, 2006 (18 of 30)
bnimks said:

I've just talked with my repair man who tolf me that the the laser in my Onkyo had 'burned out'. He also told that the laser-module was a Sony-product and not the more solid things used earlier by Onkyo. I still think that cleaning of the lens and maybe machine aided cleaning of the records could help.

Burnt out lazer is rare..If thats so the unit wont read anything?...damaged lazer by power spikes or surges are also rare and I summise can only happen whilst being used? So, are you near and industrial site where power fluctuations are common?
Maybe spike protection sometimes built in (VDR) has also burned out These do not last for ever and burn(erode) up by sheer number of spikes.
Cleadings the disc? is pretty easy..I found that NOT adding a polish works best..ie thinning the trace MRA ? left from the pressing works best, I use a RATA product and makes fingermarks less likely but that is mostly on the tracks.The problem you have is on the inner ring when the lazer starts looking for the disc info before playing...Claudes suggestion was a good one and also using dark green marker ink.
Suggest you try the DVD type cleaner.They are supposed to be different from the CD cleaner...Dave

Post by armenian October 6, 2006 (19 of 30)
Looking back at the big picture, if there really is a future for SACD, if this format is going to survive the answer is moving away from the hybrids and produce SACD layer only discs. Every and all players sooner or later are going to have serious problems reading the hybrids, those who came up with this bright idea never considered the technical issues that we are all facing.

Vahe

Post by Claude October 6, 2006 (20 of 30)
armenian said:

Looking back at the big picture, if there really is a future for SACD, if this format is going to survive the answer is moving away from the hybrids and produce SACD layer only discs. Every and all players sooner or later are going to have serious problems reading the hybrids, those who came up with this bright idea never considered the technical issues that we are all facing.

How do you now that "Every and all players sooner or later are going to have serious problems reading the hybrids"? Sony players - which all use the same laser pickup - are known to have the problem, but the other popular brands are much more reliable.

Moving back to single layer SACDs means reducing the potential market even more than now. Not many people are willing to replace all their CD players with SACD-capable machines, and not many are accepting not to be able to play the discs on a PC, copy them to CD-R, or to MP3 for portable playback. As far as usability goes, single layer SACDs are crippled CDs. Only hifi freaks would buy them, but no music format can survive on that market alone.

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