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Discussion: Schumann: Symphonies 1-4 - Rattle

Posts: 43
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Post by Polly Nomial May 1, 2014 (1 of 43)
Please note - the 4th symphony is the original version, not the more familiar version that the Berliners have recorded with the likes of F & HvK.

Post by ramesh May 1, 2014 (2 of 43)
Polly Nomial said:

Please note - the 4th symphony is the original version

BIS 1519 also has the 1841 version of the Fourth, with the Swedish chamber orchestra. This is an excellent release.
It makes sense for a chamber orchestra to perform this leaner original version.

I feel the database here should stipulate either in 'title' or 'notes' which version is on disc, not just for Schumann. For the Stravinsky ballets it should be noted which e.g. Le Sacre versions use the 1947 score. Also for 'the Firebird' whether it's the full ballet or one of the suites. The Abbado/LSO SACD doesn't note in the sa-cd.net database that the Firebird uses the 1919 suite, and that Le Sacre is in the rarely recorded 1967 edition of the 1947 version- though I emailed this info some time ago.

Post by zeus May 1, 2014 (3 of 43)
ramesh said:

I feel the database here should stipulate either in 'title' or 'notes' which version is on disc, not just for Schumann. For the Stravinsky ballets it should be noted which e.g. Le Sacre versions use the 1947 score. Also for 'the Firebird' whether it's the full ballet or one of the suites. The Abbado/LSO SACD doesn't note in the sa-cd.net database that the Firebird uses the 1919 suite, and that Le Sacre is in the rarely recorded 1967 edition of the 1947 version- though I emailed this info some time ago.

I think these came in with the request for updates to stereo/multichannel status. You may want to send the changes again. As a general note though there's a finite amount of time that can be spent on the cataloguing here (all done by hand) so some details will necessarily be incomplete. But we can only do our best.

Post by old-dog-newtricks May 19, 2014 (4 of 43)
BPO are certainly pushing the boat out with this first release. One of the UK merchants/retailersis offering it for under £40 and the set seems to include BD-A, BD-V, CD and download code for a 24/192 file plus limited free use of the BPO concert streaming.. Not sure you would need the download if you have the BD-A DTS HD though. Release is this Friday.

Post by Vaan May 20, 2014 (5 of 43)
I like this a lot. Great playing, of course, and in my opinion the best ting Rattle has done. I would prefer the revised version of the fourth though and they could have included both, if it were not for Rattle declaring that he will only play the original.

Post by Chris May 20, 2014 (6 of 43)
I am interested in this release. But I only need one version ie the highest "native" resolution,unless the download code only gives you an upsampled version of the 24/96 available on the Blurays.
Even with possible discounts involved,from some vendors as hinted here, I still have absolutely ZERO interest in the two rbcds packed together with the bluray audio and bluray video versions.
In a way this is even worse than Pentatone's forcing customers to buy iso files that have to be converted, unpacked ,to get their native DSD files.
In this case you even have to buy the physical rbcds to access what is hopefully the real thing,ie the masterfiles!
And although I must confess that Rattle´s conducting Dvorak and other orchestral highlights at a Waldbühne live concert in Berlin that I watched and tried to hear on a noisy flight via the "Super Hi Fi" in flight audio system,recently,actually made it possible to follow the music from his clear beat and even his "drawing the flow" of the music in the air with his gestures and baton.
Even when a lot of the actual sound was completely drowned out by cabin noise.But I still have a bit of a problem watching the often weird expressions on his face close up. Therefore I have little interest in both the video and the free one week offer included in this not exactly bargain priced set of Schumann's symphonies . I want only the masterfiles Simon! I already know you are a good conductor and that the BPO is still one of the World's best orchestras.
I am especially interested in hearing the original version of the 4th.
Although in almost equally bad SQ as on my recent flight,my favourite version of the 4th is the old black and white video of Karajan rehearsing and conducting the standard version of the 4th.
For some reason his 70's DGG recording of the 4th for DGG is not as good as the old video version imho.

Post by nucaleena May 20, 2014 (7 of 43)
Dear all of the above,

I already have hi res compl. versions from Jarvi on SACD (DSD on RCA), Jarvi on Blu Ray (a real indulgence to have both, I know), Forster on SACD (also DSD on Pentatone) plus a few singles i.e. Chailly and the Concertgebouw with the 4th (on Blu Ray) and the Staatskapelle Dresden (also on BLu Ray).

My question is, do I really need this set too? Does Rattle have anything to offer that the above conductors don't (apart from the original vsn of #4) and is the BPO performance better than the Czech PO, the Deutsche Kammerphilharmonie, the Dresdeners and the Leipzig G.O. ??

I'm sceptical but willing to be persuaded.

V Interested in your replies. Thanks.

Post by ramesh May 20, 2014 (8 of 43)
Chris said:

my favourite version of the 4th is the old black and white video of Karajan rehearsing and conducting the standard version of the 4th.
For some reason his 70's DGG recording of the 4th for DGG is not as good as the old video version imho.

This Schumann 4 from Karajan is also with the Wiener Symphoniker, not the VPO. Not only is the performance a great one, but the rehearsal sequence partially demonstrates how Karajan is able to elicit some of his hallmark sound from an orchestra he rarely conducted. Had I not looked on the box originally, I would probably have thought it was the VPO in performance. The rehearsal sequence and performance of the Beethoven 5 with the BPO on the same Euroarts DVD is equally good.

I have the overpriced SHM SACD of Furtwängler's Schumann 4, arguably the most monumental yet intense performance which exists of this work. This SHM SACD, along with the equivalent for the 1953 studio recording of the Schubert Great C major and the SACD from King [ licensed I believe from an Audite CD ] of 1954 concert recordings of Beethoven 5 and 6, have the best sound of this conductor with the BPO.

Post by Chris May 25, 2014 (9 of 43)
Interesting review by Polly just posted.
It seems I will have to buy the first rbcds in many years apart from the ones that come bundled with BBC Music Magazine,which I occasionally still buy,to get the hi res downloads I really want.
While there is no shortage of Schumann symphonies in my LP collection and I even have a couple of SACDs,none of them are fully satisfying to me.
Furthermore my two favourite Schumann symphonies The Spring symphony and the 4th are works I definitely want in my hi res downloads collection too.
One of the true joys of this site apart from civilised exhanges of views as on this thread,are the often inspiring and well written reviews from some reviewers. And I trust both Polly,and hints from Vaan,well enough to go for this one.
Yes I know that Paavo Järvi has a chamber orchestra hip set out on SACD ,and that BIS does too. But personally I am less convinced by young Järvi than his father Neeme,as a conductor though.

Young Järvi's Bruckner 7 for example,also on RCA is nowhere near how I feel that masterwork should be played.
And his Stravinsky/Nielsen on Telarc is boring imho.
And the BIS chamber orchestra Schumann series is not my cup of tea either.
I strongly feel that Schumann's music needs to be heard and performed by a large orchestra to blossom fully.
And not only large,but absolutely top class orchestra.

And judging by Polly's review today,it seems that might be what Rattle and his Berliners actually deliver.
I will place my order of this set today.
Although I have to say that the cover shot "smells a bit of cheap RF photography"and not worthy of a premium production like this.

Post by Polly Nomial May 25, 2014 (10 of 43)
The cover photography is throughout the booklet and is the close-up of one of a series of 4 vases. Having seen the whole thing, it makes more sense than one single shot can achieve. That said, I can fully appreciate the design will not appeal to everyone.

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