Thread: New Marantz receivers take pure DSD; no conversion to PCM

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Post by keenly September 24, 2014 (1 of 40)
http://www.marantz.co.uk/uk/products/pages/productlisting.aspx?catid=hometheatre&subcatid=avreceiver

I currently have the discontinued SR 7005 which only takes PCM. I am upgrading shortly.

I have checked the manuals of the 6009 and 7009. They state they can process DSD at 2.8224 MHz! This is great news for me. Some recordings at PCM 176KHz, which is my current bit rate for SACD listening suffer nothing from the conversion but others do, thus I need a receiver that does DSD to analogue.

Post by Iain September 24, 2014 (2 of 40)
keenly said:

...

I currently have the discontinued SR 7005 which only takes PCM. I am upgrading shortly.

I have checked the manuals of the 6009 and 7009. They state they can process DSD at 2.8224 MHz! This is great news for me. Some recordings at PCM 176KHz, which is my current bit rate for SACD listening suffer nothing from the conversion but others do, thus I need a receiver that does DSD to analogue.

Pity. Say goodbye to bass-management and other assorted features that you may cherish on your current processor. You may find that there isn't a great difference between what you currently have and the new one, except for a bank account with depleted funds.

I see nothing wrong with DSD processing function on my current processor.

Be careful what you wish for.

Post by Solo man September 24, 2014 (3 of 40)
keenly said:

http://www.marantz.co.uk/uk/products/pages/productlisting.aspx?catid=hometheatre&subcatid=avreceiver

I currently have the discontinued SR 7005 which only takes PCM. I am upgrading shortly.

I have checked the manuals of the 6009 and 7009. They state they can process DSD at 2.8224 MHz! This is great news for me. Some recordings at PCM 176KHz, which is my current bit rate for SACD listening suffer nothing from the conversion but others do, thus I need a receiver that does DSD to analogue.

That's good news and great to hear that Marantz is trying to improve things. Just wondering if you can explain how you can tell when the SACD suffers from conversion on some of your recordings?
Maybe something I can look out for as I am always trying to learn.

Post by Iain September 24, 2014 (4 of 40)
keenly said:

...

I currently have the discontinued SR 7005 which only takes PCM. I am upgrading shortly.

I have checked the manuals of the 6009 and 7009. They state they can process DSD at 2.8224 MHz! This is great news for me. Some recordings at PCM 176KHz, which is my current bit rate for SACD listening suffer nothing from the conversion but others do, thus I need a receiver that does DSD to analogue.

Also, in late 2012 I extensively researched processors and was more confused than ever at the time. I had narrowed it down to Denon and Marantz; then I came across this thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-receivers-amps-processors/1437459-denon-avr-3313ci-compared-marantz-sr7007.html

That thread was the determinate factor in the purchase of my current processor. You should peruse the thread and save a lot of money on your new one.

Thread is just as valid now as it was then.

Current successors to the AVR-3313 are the AVR-X4000 and the new AVR-X4100 with Dolby Atmos:
http://www.denon.co.uk/uk/product/pages/product-detail.aspx?catid=hometheatre&subid=avreceivers&productid=avrx4100w

Post by keenly September 24, 2014 (5 of 40)
Iain said:

Pity. Say goodbye to bass-management and other assorted features that you may cherish on your current processor. You may find that there isn't a great difference between what you currently have and the new one, except for a bank account with depleted funds.

I see nothing wrong with DSD processing function on my current processor.

Be careful what you wish for.

Bass management? I have NEVER used that. I don't use any EQ. I just play SACDS via HDMI at 176 instead of DSD.

Post by keenly September 24, 2014 (6 of 40)
Solo man said:

That's good news and great to hear that Marantz is trying to improve things. Just wondering if you can explain how you can tell when the SACD suffers from conversion on some of your recordings?
Maybe something I can look out for as I am always trying to learn.

Compare PCM to DSD; just switch between the two on Blu Ray.

Post by Arell September 24, 2014 (7 of 40)
Iain said:

Pity. Say goodbye to bass-management and other assorted features that you may cherish on your current processor. You may find that there isn't a great difference between what you currently have and the new one, except for a bank account with depleted funds.

I see nothing wrong with DSD processing function on my current processor.

Be careful what you wish for.

My 18 months old SR7007 Marantz receiver had a heart attack last week. It obviously got into 'protection mode' for a reason I have no clue of.
Would this be an opportunity for an upgrade?

It seems that the SR7008 is no longer for sale where I live. I definitely don't need the new possibilities of ceiling speakers that the brand new Sr 7009 offers. But I would like the ability of having zone 2 speakers in the kitchen that isn't provided with the 7007, since I also have a pair of wide speakers in my main room.

I really don't understand what Iain, whom I cited, means. Why would a Marantz upgrade give me worse bass?

Comments are welcome.

Post by Iain September 24, 2014 (8 of 40)
Arell said:

My 18 months old SR7007 Marantz receiver had a heart attack last week. It obviously got into 'protection mode' for a reason I have no clue of.
Would this be an opportunity for an upgrade?

It seems that the SR7008 is no longer for sale where I live. I definitely don't need the new possibilities of ceiling speakers that the brand new Sr 7009 offers. But I would like the ability of having zone 2 speakers in the kitchen that isn't provided with the 7007, since I also have a pair of wide speakers in my main room.

I really don't understand what Iain, whom I cited, means. Why would a Marantz upgrade give me worse bass?

Comments are welcome.

Because bass-management requires PCM mode for proper functionality as do all the other features I alluded to in post 2 of this thread. Frankly, most in this forum feel that DSD mode yields a lifeless sound quality, as all those essential features are disabled in that mode.

BTW, I know how you are feeling as my 2-years old AVR-3310 went into protection mode permanently in 11/12. It was replaced immediately by AVR-3313. It wasn't worth repairing as I had been planning for AVR-3313 later rather than sooner. As it turned out, it was sooner rather than later instead. Just my luck. : )

Post by Solo man September 24, 2014 (9 of 40)
keenly said:

Compare PCM to DSD; just switch between the two on Blu Ray.

I don't have any Bluray audio disks. I was referring to your comment on SACD.

Post by Yoropiko1 September 24, 2014 (10 of 40)
keenly said:

http://www.marantz.co.uk/uk/products/pages/productlisting.aspx?catid=hometheatre&subcatid=avreceiver

I currently have the discontinued SR 7005 which only takes PCM. I am upgrading shortly.

I have checked the manuals of the 6009 and 7009. They state they can process DSD at 2.8224 MHz! This is great news for me. Some recordings at PCM 176KHz, which is my current bit rate for SACD listening suffer nothing from the conversion but others do, thus I need a receiver that does DSD to analogue.

Do bear in mind this 2.8Mhz compatibility for DSD refers to network/streamed DSD only "NOT" DSD derived from SACD.

If your source of DSD is SACD discs then sadly you'll probably find that this has no benefit to you. I'm assuming you bitstream your SACD via HDMI to your receiver having first converted the DSD to 176.4Khz PCM (from a PS3 or Sony Blu ray player is my guess ). The 2 receivers you mention do not suggest they accept DSD via HDMI and even if they do its likely the incoming DSD is internally converted to PCM anyway by the DACs inside the receiver, thus gaining no futher advantage to the set up you currently have.

Perhaps consider upgrading ( downgrading? ) to an older model of receiver from the likes of Onkyo, where you will be able to stream DSD directly via HDMI from your source player and have it converted straight to analog without a PCM conversion, thus achieveing your intended aim of creating a DSD>>>Analog conversion. However as already mentioned by other posters here, as to whether you will hear any improvement listening this way is debatable given you will have to disengage any EQ/bass management in order to prevent the DSD signal being converted to PCM anyway.

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