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Discussion: Simple Minds: Sparkle in the Rain

Posts: 60
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Post by Rickko March 27, 2015 (21 of 60)
rammiepie said:


More recent 5.1 remixes which were recorded with a multichannel release in mind fare better (I DO have two 5.1 systems, as well).

My remarks about 5.1 remixing engineers having a problem with what to do with a center channel is not fiction and I can understand their dilemma. As previously noted, with Star Wars (1977) 5.1 was introduced into the mainstream. Until that time, most surround albums were indeed QUAD (4.0) and if you've heard the magnificent AF 4.0 SACD remasters, I find them incredibly ACTIVE....again, they're utilizing the l/r fronts to create a phantom center.......with GREAT success, IMHO!

rammiepie,

Ever since the late 1960's and the use of multi-tracks for recording in rock/pop, the possibilities for multi-channel have created interest first in Quadraphonic 4.0 during the early 1970's to multi-channel 5.1 in the latter part of the 1990's. For quadraphonic of the 70's, the equipment simply was not good enough at the time (I had a Sansui QSD-1) and never mind the lack of mass acceptance. Now we have the good systems and 5.1 is generally accepted and any music recordings (or remixes) are generated for that purpose. 4.2 systems are not for this intended purpose but if works for you and it sounds great, okay.

As for engineers remixing in 5.1, there are relatively few who are really good at it and I am sure the centre channel is a challenge. Normally vocals are chosen for the centre and with a good mix, I usually have no problems on my system. Steven Wilson's mixes on SFTBC and Sparkle required an increase of 3 db to properly balance the vocals. This is not a criticism of Mr. Wilson or his mix: I adjusted to fully enjoy both albums in 5.1 and I was not disappointed.

Yes I have listened to Audio Fidelity's 4.0 The Best of Bread. Excellent. However, a point of correction: neither the 4.0 or 2.0 should be termed 'remastered'. 4.0 were quad tapes transferred to DSD by Gus Skinas and the Stereo was 'mastered' (not remastered) by Steve Hoffman.

Also you stand to be corrected: Star Wars (1977) was not the first 5.1 movie. It was Apocalypse Now in 1979. Batman Returns (1992) saw the introduction of Dolby Digital 5.1. This information is available on the internet.

Post by rammiepie March 27, 2015 (22 of 60)
Rickko said:



Also you stand to be corrected: Star Wars (1977) was not the first 5.1 movie. It was Apocalypse Now in 1979. Batman Returns (1992) saw the introduction of Dolby Digital 5.1. This information is available on the internet.

Rick, I stand corrected: Star Wars was the first Dolby Surround film and I did see Apocalypse Now at the Ziegfield in Manhattan in 6 track Magnetic Sound and 70mm (and once stated I never heard the Doors The End sound as astoundingly good even in its present 5.1 SACD/DVD~A remasterings......) Of course, the Ziegfield sound system was outrageous and the screen immense....the Imax of the day, or so it seemed.

But I do believe 6 track magnetic sound has been around for a long time and Stars Wars was shown in "select" theaters as a discreet 6 channel surround mix http://www.in70mm.com/newsletter/2000/62/dolby/index.htm (as were some older 60's films like My Fair Lady and Spartacus, et alia) and Dolby Surround in theaters "equipped at the time" with Dolby Surround.....It was even shown in MONO at some rural theaters who couldn't yet afford a newer upgraded sound system.

And you're quite correct, Rick, about the paucity of good 5.1 mixers: I count four: Elliot Scheiner, Steve Wilson, Bob Clearmountain and James Guthrie.

My one wish: if the "master class pros" who mix the Hollywood blockbuster films got involved in remixing music in 5.1..........the one deterrent......the money probably isn't there to draw them away from the movie studios....even though, ironically, the movie studios own the record companies (or vice versa).

And, yes, the QUAD tapes utilized by AF were once remixed into Quad from the multitracks way back when and Gus Skinas and Steve Hoffman transferred them to SACD.

Finally, anyone for Dolby Atmos???????

Post by windhoek March 28, 2015 (23 of 60)
There's a thread at Super Deluxe edition which suggests Universal acknowledge there's been a pressing error and replacement discs will be sent out to affected customers upon contact and receipt of the faulty disc, whether DVD or Blu ray.

SDE say "Universal Music have put a process in place to allow fans who bought the Simple Minds Sparkle in the Rain super deluxe edition box set to get a replacement DVD which, in error, contained the Steven Wilson hi-res ‘stereo’ mix in mono. The DVD is being reproduced so that is all 100 percent correct. In order to get a replacement, you just need to send your faulty DVD to the address below. If you send your booklet as well, you will get a new one of them too, because the last paragraph was inadvertently missed off the original.

Update: 17.50 24/3/15: As an alternative you can email proof of purchase to mk.customerservices@umusic.com and they will send you out the replacement disc. Universal have confirmed to me that this will suffice. Put SIMPLE MINDS REPLACEMENT DISC in the subject line."

Send – with a return address – to:

Simple Minds Returns – 5th Floor
UMC 364-366 Kensington High Street
London
W14 8NS


What's more, Steven Wilson himself posted in the thread to say...

"Hello folks, this is Steven Wilson – I did the new mixes of Sparkle in the Rain that are on this edition. It’s been difficult for me to monitor because I’m in Europe on tour and therefore not in my studio, but I have been able to establish that unfortunately there are issues with the transfers of both the stereo and the 5.1 mixes. The issues with the 5.1 are less obvious, but the bottom line is that it does not sound as it should. I’m not sure what happened exactly, it may have been some kind of file corruption, but before you ask; no I wasn’t sent any kind of check disc, though I have had assurance that I always will be in future. We will sort this out, but I need to ask you to be a bit patient with this one, it’s probably not going to be a “quick fix”. My apologies."

Post by Dixie4 March 28, 2015 (24 of 60)
Am I glad I didn't buy this disc !!

Post by fausto K March 28, 2015 (25 of 60)
Am I glad I don't have to bother with Multi-Channel. What a lot of unwanted hassle for just listening to music!

Post by davos73 March 30, 2015 (26 of 60)
How to know if the store discs are correct ?

Post by rammiepie March 30, 2015 (27 of 60)
davos73 said:

How to know if the store discs are correct ?

I received my copy today and am awaiting further instructions on whom to mail the defective disc to for replacement.

My advice: wait awhile until this 'mess' is sorted out and then order. AmazonUK is aware of the defect and is delaying further shipment awaiting a repress.

hashtag: Sparkle Down The Drain!

Post by Marpow April 4, 2015 (28 of 60)
Rickko said:

I can confirm there is a problem with the Stereo mix as it is collapsed into Mono.

I did my initial listen to the 5.1 mix in LPCM 96k 24Bit. Steven Wilson's mix is excellent but there is an issue: the vocals sound pushed back in the mix.

I made the same adjustment to the centre channel on Sparkle with a boost of + 3 db to increase the vocals. A small adjustment allowed me to thoroughly enjoy an outstanding 5.1 mix.

Just before I left my Sparkle in the Rain was delivered, 3/25/2015. I did not listen until today and I thoroughly read everybody's posts on this thread as they seemed to be very interesting opinions.

As I write I have listened via LPCM 5.1. The easy part of this discussion is that everybody is correct and clearly there is an acknowledged issue with printing of disc.

I have never owned this disc of any version and although I am familiar with the songs I like them better on City of Light.

My first CD of Simple Minds was Live in the City of Light, which I wore out I loved so much.

The DVD~A of Once Upon a Time, is hands down awesome.

The RBCD/DVD of 2014's "Big Music" is my choice for best new music/disc of 2014. I am a big fan of Simple Minds.

This disc, Sparkle, as it came to me, not sure if I received a corrected disc, probably not. It is the first HFPA disc I received that does not have a download voucher, wondering if that is universal?

My experience is as others, with vocals, center channel, a little recessed, but not that bad and as Rickko points out a boost is all it needs.

Surround sound is great. I have been doing this long enough now that satisfaction of performance outweighs sonic quality. If I am happy with performance it will usually placebo my interpretation of SQ. Assuming things are not polar opposites.

Having listened to the stereo mix also, my opinion is, a horrible stereo mix. I have digital read out via my amp on all speakers and my right/left speakers are reading almost identical, but not mono.

Disclaimer: I have been on a great Jamaican unwinding vacation and I am sure my ears are out of tune, maybe still a little sand in there. It is nice to be back and listen to the glorious sound of a home system.
Gained a little weight, exercise more, listen less.

Post by Rickko April 4, 2015 (29 of 60)
My experience is as others, with vocals, center channel, a little recessed, but not that bad and as Rickko points out a boost is all it needs.

Surround sound is great. I have been doing this long enough now that satisfaction of performance outweighs sonic quality. If I am happy with performance it will usually placebo my interpretation of SQ. Assuming things are not polar opposites.

Having listened to the stereo mix also, my opinion is, a horrible stereo mix. I have digital read out via my amp on all speakers and my right/left speakers are reading almost identical, but not mono.

Hi Mark,

I did one full listen to the 5.1 with the vocals pushed up +3 db in the centre channel and very much enjoyed the mix. Steven Wilson did post to say there are issues with the 5.1 mix that are not as obvious as the Stereo mix. I have no idea what the issue(s) is/are but a number of comments appear on other forums as to what the problem(s) may be. I am not about to guess. I can wait for the problem(s) to be fixed but I do not anticipate it will be necessarily soon (Steven Wilson is presently on tour which may be a factor).

But I do want to add something. I did notice in listening that the bass activity on the 5.1 mix was subdued. My Rel sub-bass was barely active. I did go back and listen to a few tracks on the Blu-ray and compared them to the bass on the same tracks of the RBCD 2002 remaster and found them to be similar. It may have been Steven Wilson's intent to mix the bass on the 5.1 this way and I certainly would not take issue with this type of choice. However, this would be somewhat uncharacteristic as he choose to push up the bass in the 5.1 mixes for Songs From the Big Chair and The Yes Album (both are fabulous 5.1 mixes and the bass plays a prominent role).

It will be interesting to hear the Blu-ray replacement when it is eventually reissued. I will have the advantage of comparing the 5.1 mix on the defective disc (which may not mean anything) as the third-party vendor thru Amazon UK told me to keep the item and issued a refund.

Rick

Post by Rickko April 11, 2015 (30 of 60)
In viewing the Acoustic Sounds site for upcoming new releases, I noticed a scheduled release date of April 17, 2015 for Sparkle in the Rain on Blu-ray.

It may mean the problems on the Stereo and 5.1 mixes have been corrected for this release.

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