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Discussion: Mahler: Symphony No. 9 - Fischer

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Post by pgmdir May 20, 2015 (21 of 36)
My Fischer M9 arrived from the UK today, and my first listen suggests that not only does it live up to his previous Mahler releases, but it immediately seems to me to be the best since,and possibly including the very successful M4.

To this point, my favorite M9 has been Jukka-Pekka Saraste's. But I'm liking this new one by Fischer--- and hearing new things.

Like Boulez and Gielen, Fischer doesn't drag out the first movement as much as others--- but I find nothing to complain about. The Adagio seems perfect--- It NEVER seems rushed. Chailly's final movements in both M9 and M3 seem to appeal to many, but I find them rather like watching grass grow.

By the way--- A special appreciation for Clemens Romijn's liner notes. Concise and interesting.

The Sound quality is just what you'd expect from CC and Jared Sacks-- wonderful.

Post by Euell Neverno May 20, 2015 (22 of 36)
Simon V. said:

By the way, I came across this interesting piece by Daniel Barenboim on dis/liking Mahler: http://www.theguardian.com/education/2001/aug/31/arts.highereducation

It's an interesting piece, but not on disliking Mahler.

Post by Simon V. May 20, 2015 (23 of 36)
Euell Neverno said:

It's an interesting piece, but not on disliking Mahler.

Well, that wasn't (quite) what I wrote.

Post by Euell Neverno May 20, 2015 (24 of 36)
Barenboim does dislike Berstein's approach to Mahler.

Post by Ubertrout May 20, 2015 (25 of 36)
Simon V. said:

It's not my favourite, either, though I enjoy it more once I've made it through the first part.

By the way, I came across this interesting piece by Daniel Barenboim on dis/liking Mahler: http://www.theguardian.com/education/2001/aug/31/arts.highereducation

The story about running into Klemperer on Yom Kippur alone is worth reading the piece. Thanks for sharing!

Post by fausto K May 21, 2015 (26 of 36)
Simon V. said:

So that will be all the symphonies apart from the Eighth (and the Tenth)? It seems a shame to stop one short.

Most well-known/big name conductors (bar Sanderling, Chailly, Rattle, and Zinman) don't think, for whatever reason, that one should record an integral Mahler 10th (same with Bruckner's Finale of the 9th, which conspicuously Simone Young, who specifically recorded the Originalfassungen for other symphonies, declined to record for her latest Bruckner: Symphony No. 9 - Young).
The most realistic (if only tiny) chance that one gets another Mahler 10th on SACD by a well-known conductor/orchestra is that Rattle records it for the 3rd time, this time with the LSO, which he is going to lead from 2017 onwards. Or indeed that Chailly includes the 10th in his ongoing Bluray cycle with the Gewandhaus (which I think is unlikely).

Post by Simon V. May 21, 2015 (27 of 36)
fausto K said:

Most well-known/big name conductors (bar Sanderling, Chailly, Rattle, and Zinman) don't think, for whatever reason, that one should record an integral Mahler 10th (same with Bruckner's Finale of the 9th, which conspicuously Simone Young, who specifically recorded the Originalfassungen for other symphonies, declined to record for her latest Bruckner: Symphony No. 9 - Young).
The most realistic (if only tiny) chance that one gets another Mahler 10th on SACD by a well-known conductor/orchestra is that Rattle records it for the 3rd time, this time with the LSO, which he is going to lead from 2017 onwards. Or indeed that Chailly includes the 10th in his ongoing Bluray cycle with the Gewandhaus (which I think is unlikely).

I think your comments are directed more at diw.

The Tenth's non-canonical status is the reason I included it in brackets. I have Neumann's recording of the first movement with the Czech Philharmonic and am content with that for now.

Post by wehecht May 21, 2015 (28 of 36)
fausto K said:

Most well-known/big name conductors (bar Sanderling, Chailly, Rattle, and Zinman) don't think, for whatever reason, that one should record an integral Mahler 10th...

Unfortunately Zinman's was Carpenter's second version, to my mind the least authentic sounding of the various alternatives that've made it to disc (Cooke 1,2, and 3, Wheeler, Carpenter 1 and 2, Mazzetti 1 and 2, Samale/Mazzucca and Gamzou, all of which I've heard except the last). Why conductors continue to balk at the 10th after hearing it, not just looking at a score, continues to elude me. With Fischer out I guess the only remaining hope for a sacd of Cooke 3 lies with Ben Zander, whose views on the matter I do not know, unless, as you suggest, Rattle should choose to give it another go. In the meantime I rely on his 1999 BPO recording of it on DVD-A. Not the kind of sound one would hear from Channel if Fischer were so inclined, but oh how sublime the music is!

Post by fausto K May 21, 2015 (29 of 36)
wehecht said:

Unfortunately Zinman's was Carpenter's second version, to my mind the least authentic sounding of the various alternatives that've made it to disc (Cooke 1,2, and 3, Wheeler, Carpenter 1 and 2, Mazzetti 1 and 2, Samale/Mazzucca and Gamzou, all of which I've heard except the last). Why conductors continue to balk at the 10th after hearing it, not just looking at a score, continues to elude me. With Fischer out I guess the only remaining hope for a sacd of Cooke 3 lies with Ben Zander, whose views on the matter I do not know, unless, as you suggest, Rattle should choose to give it another go. In the meantime I rely on his 1999 BPO recording of it on DVD-A. Not the kind of sound one would hear from Channel if Fischer were so inclined, but oh how sublime the music is!

Indeed, a Zander 10 would be good to have -- he strikes me as one who doesn't think it's beneath him to record/perform the 10th, but that's just my guess.
Another option would be to lobby Robert from BIS to entice Andrew Litton to record the Cooke 3 with the Bergen Philharmonic. Litton appears to have recorded M10 before with the Dallas SO on RBCD. But that was the Carpenter version. So he should first be weaned off the Carpenter score.
If downloading is your thing, Noseda recorded the Cooke vs. not so long ago, with the BBC Philharmonic, for Chandos. It was recorded in 24/96, but alas not released as SACD, as is clear.

Post by diw May 21, 2015 (30 of 36)
There is also a Cooke 10 from Japan on the recent additions, but unfortunately stereo only, as is routine for the Japanese labels these days.

I understand why a conductor or orchestra doing a Mahler cycle might choose not to record the entire 10th or just record the Adagio, but this does not reflect the music's worth, or how great it would sound if released by Jared and company.

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