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Discussion: Lloyd: Symphony No. 11 - Lloyd

Posts: 52
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Post by brenda November 13, 2006 (21 of 52)
saffron200 said: What a load of pretentious claptrap! Are you honestly saying that the role of 'art' (whatever that means!) is to be unpleasant?
dear saffron,

if you read Thomas's (edvin's comment) what he said was that the role of art is not to be pleasant. He didn't say it can'be be pleasant nor that it should aim to be unpleaant.

What T. wrote and what you construed are entirely different things.

Before using objectionable and insulting terms like "pretentious claptrap", it might be wise to read what was written.

regards, brenda

Post by Darwin November 13, 2006 (22 of 52)
It's too bad that humans don't usually speak in C++ syntax:

Role(art) != pleasant; // The role of art is not the same thing as pleasant

is easily distinguished from

Role(art) = !(pleasant); // The role of art is the opposite of pleasant

Post by raffells November 13, 2006 (23 of 52)
I'm sure we won't fall out over this :-)
And I would say I agree with wehecht that the SACD replacements really do show an improvement over the original issues, so I guess I'll have to buy them all all over again.

Interesting that I also find Lloyds music fabulous.Took me quite a while (many years) as the Albanny Lps were pretty awfull (mostly noisey digital) so it was a suprise when the I heard the Lyritas 4th 5th 8th which were considerably better versions that the composers own where applicable.
I was very suprised at the new to me first and last symps which are totally different and the 11th has taken a few more plays to get into it..Again this is different to others with only occasional Lloyd reference points from earlier symps.
Agreed he is looking backwards but so did Jay Greenb but Edwin was not critical about that?.Lloyd spent most of his lifetime being rejected and that was a tragic mistake for all listeners..
I think its been a suprise at the quality jump fgrom stereo masters??and would like to hear someones comment re surround (mines unplugged since decorating). Do hope they do the lot?.D

L

Post by Windsurfer November 13, 2006 (24 of 52)
Peter said:

Bruce, it's a matter of taste again.

Yep, and I am certain that David Allen Miller would strenuously disagree with my assessment! (I certainly hope he would!)

Post by raffells November 13, 2006 (25 of 52)
Edvin said:

Schoenberg wrote loads of tunes by the way.

and some say Badly ?
Anyone can be different..Just doesnt make them superior or original..The people who realized that they could still write new tunes and didnt have to offend the ear are the true artistic composers ..Historically anyone who wrote "badly" eventually quickly disappeared from the history book.(In time.)Only to be re discovered by people who always want something different?...It seems to help that type of person elevate themselves above the norm?.for whatever reason..seen it happen too often...

Post by Edvin November 13, 2006 (26 of 52)
raffells said:

Anyone can be different..

I find it incredible that Schoenberg is still considered different. In 2006, I don´t get it. I have just finished watching the DVD from San Fransisco with MTT taking us through The Rite of Spring, Keeping Score the series is called. MTT is a genius when it somes to making things clear to an audience and I am really grateful that Stravinsky did not choose to be pleasant.

Jay Greenberg was 12 when he wrote his symphony!

Post by saffron200 November 14, 2006 (27 of 52)
Hmmm - I seemed to have stirred things up a bit... :-) Maybe 'pretentious claptrap' was a bit strong. For which I apologize - especially to Brenda, who is obviously a sensitive soul. As it happens I was born at St. Ives (Lloyd's birthplace), and the location of his studio/music room at the old watermill in the village of Zennor in the far west of Cornwall was once owned by a direct ancestor of mine. At the end of the day we all have our 'likes and dislikes' and yes, I do happen to like some Schoenberg as well.... The thing that I was really objecting to was the elitist attitude that still exists amongst the musical establishment.

Post by Edvin November 14, 2006 (28 of 52)
saffron200 said:
The thing that I was really objecting to was the elitist attitude that still exists amongst the musical establishment.

It´s funny that as soon as you dislike something you are accused of being elitist. Apparently saffron200 has a personal relationship with the music of Lloyd, geographically at least. How does that make the music better?

Not dark is not necessarily light. Not black is not white. Not pleasant is not automatically unpleasant.

Post by saffron200 November 14, 2006 (29 of 52)
Edvin said:

It´s funny that as soon as you dislike something you are accused of being elitist. Apparently saffron200 has a personal relationship with the music of Lloyd, geographically at least. How does that make the music better?

Not dark is not necessarily light. Not black is not white. Not pleasant is not automatically unpleasant.

Oh well Edvin, that makes me elitist as well I suppose.... Being 'geographically' connected does not make it any better I agree. I do have an 'affinity' for the composer but regardless of that I would still enjoy the music just as much. It would be a boring old world if we all liked the same things.... Incidentally, what you said about the 'Rite of Spring' was interesting. It may be 'art' but I would not listen to it for pleasure even if it is an incredible score...

Post by Edvin November 14, 2006 (30 of 52)
Is the Rite a bit advanced for your taste...gosh.

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