add to wish list | library


19 of 21 recommend this,
would you recommend it?

yes | no

amazon.ca
amazon.co.uk
amazon.com
amazon.de
 
amazon.fr
amazon.it
 
jpc

Discussion: Mahler: Symphony No. 6 - Haitink

Posts: 11
Page: 1 2 next

Post by wehecht February 13, 2008 (1 of 11)
Is anyone buying these new releases of overrecorded repertoire besides the patrons of the issuing orchestra? I have three versions of Mahler 6 in my sacd collection, Tilson Thomas, Zander, Eschenbach (the latter purely as a matter of supporting my adopted hometown orchestra here in Philadelphia), not to mention several more on rbcd. I would like to use my dollars to encourage the CSO, and any other groups who would commit to issuing their work on sacd, but there's only so much duplication that makes artistic or financial sense. A look at the CSO's 2007-2008 concert schedule reveals many interesting programs that might have been recorded. Same goes for the Philadelphia Orchestra. Why has Ondine recorded warehorse after warhorse in Philly when so much of interest has been played? Only the first disc in the series was a wonderful exception in terms of repertoire for including the Martinu and Klein pieces though even there a mediocre Bartok CfO limits the appeal. Ondine issues interesting material recorded in Finland. Have they decided that the PO series is just a vanity undertaking? It seems so since thay certainly can't think that Maestro Eschenbach had anything of significant value to bring to bear on these works. I know this same complaint has been aired here before, but it just drives me nuts that the same folks who will ultimately conclude that sacd doesn't bring in enough additional sales to be worth the cost and effort insist on giving us the same stuff again and again, discouraging us from purchasing. Thank God for BIS, Pentatone, Chandos, Hyperion, et al.

Bill

Post by seth February 13, 2008 (2 of 11)
wehecht said:

Why has Ondine recorded warehorse after warhorse in Philly when so much of interest has been played? Only the first disc in the series was a wonderful exception in terms of repertoire for including the Martinu and Klein pieces though even there a mediocre Bartok CfO limits the appeal. Ondine issues interesting material recorded in Finland. Have they decided that the PO series is just a vanity undertaking? It seems so since thay certainly can't think that Maestro Eschenbach had anything of significant value to bring to bear on these works.

Regarding the repertoire choices for Ondine/Philadelphia records, what I've been told by credible sources, is that it's a combination of two things:

1. Ondine wants to try and expand into the Japanese market, and warhorses are what that market likes (Exton releases seem to indicate this).

2. Philadelphia did the market research, and this is the repertoire that the domestic market wants to hear the Philadelphia Orchestra playing. I think this is pretty much true for Philadelphia Orchestra audiences. The Organ disc and Mahler 6 were top sellers on Amazon for a while, so that would also seem to indicate that the masses like what they're getting.

I attended two performances of the Shostakovich 5 that went into the forthcoming recording, and they were easily among the very best Eschenbach concerts (though that doesn't mean they needed to be released).

The Orchestra did recorded one of the new Higdon pieces -- good that they took this risk, too bad that the music was awful (and I say that as Higdon fan).

Post by Arthur February 13, 2008 (3 of 11)
I feel your pain, Bill. But from speaking with many industry contacts in my years in the record business, I received consistent comments (comments pretty much confirmed by Pentaman and Bissie in their various posts) that for all the complaining people like you and I and others (Edvin springs to mind) do, the bottom line is: warhorses sell--and the adventurous repertoire doesn't.

I've always tried to make the point that the labels so often choose the wrong repertoire to be adventurous with (i.e., the Higden (although I bet Ondine has done pretty well with Rautavaara)). But that argument never seems to get very far with the people who have the money and the connections to actually make recordings. So, in the end we have to decide--over and over, I'm afraid--if we want to support the format, to what extent are we willing to duplicate.

For myself, I'd prefer a Nielsen cycle over another Mahler Symphony. On the other hand, I have every intention of springing for a Mahler 6th when it's done by the CSO under Haitink. But when Universal DOESN'T release the Gergiev Prokofiev cycle, but LSO DOES release Gergiev's Mahler 6th, both have wasted their money as far as I'm concerned. And I vote with my pocketbook.

Bret

Post by wehecht February 13, 2008 (4 of 11)
seth said:

Regarding the repertoire choices for Ondine/Philadelphia records, what I've been told by credible sources, is that it's a combination of two things:

1. Ondine wants to try and expand into the Japanese market, and warhorses are what that market likes (Exton releases seem to indicate this).

2. Philadelphia did the market research, and this is the repertoire that the domestic market wants to hear the Philadelphia Orchestra playing. I think this is pretty much true for Philadelphia Orchestra audiences. The Organ disc and Mahler 6 were top sellers on Amazon for a while, so that would also seem to indicate that the masses like what they're getting.

Thanks, Seth. I always appreciate your insights into the Philadelphia Orchestra/Ondine recording program. Your point about Philadelphia audiences is obviously true, but I'd never heard the business about Japan before. I can't say I'm excited about another Shostakovich 5, but I'll probably shell out my $20 to support the home team. No doubt the warhorse marketing strategy pays, since the Mahler and organ discs are frequently backordered and both Tchaikovsky discs have been pretty much unavailable for a while now with the 4th scheduled for reissue in March. Maybe I'd be less worked up about this if I felt the performances were worth immortalizing, but count me among those who won't be sorry to see Mr. Eschenbach depart. Sorry to hear that the Higdon was a bomb. I was looking forward to that as I'm also a fan.

Bill

Post by Naun February 14, 2008 (5 of 11)
I was at one of the concerts, and I (like many others) thought it was exceptional even by the high standards already set by the CSO/Haitink partnership. As frustrating as it is not to have more repertory available, it's still rare enough to have one of the reference recordings of a major work on SACD. I have high hopes that this will be one instance where we do.

Post by Windsurfer February 14, 2008 (6 of 11)
Bret, You just said everything I thought when I read Bill's initial post of this thread.... especially regarding Nielsen! Yes I too will purchase this Mahler 6th but really would have preferred any of so many other repertoire choices.

Post by mwagner1962 February 14, 2008 (7 of 11)
I will buy the CSO/Haitink (I too have several SACD's of Mahler's 6th) as to support the CSO label....I too wish that a Nielsen cycle would be done on SACD (I heard a CSO radio broadcast from October 2006 where Paavo Jarvi did a killer performance of Nielsen's 5th..that would be an SACD to die for)...

Maybe someday one of the orchestras who now have their own house label (CSO, Boston, SFSO etc) will start to release some more adventurous recordings out on SACD....at least we can hope...

Cheers,

Post by krisjan February 14, 2008 (8 of 11)
mwagner1962 said:

I will buy the CSO/Haitink (I too have several SACD's of Mahler's 6th) as to support the CSO label....I too wish that a Nielsen cycle would be done on SACD (I heard a CSO radio broadcast from October 2006 where Paavo Jarvi did a killer performance of Nielsen's 5th..that would be an SACD to die for)...

P. Jarvi's Nielsen Sym 5 is on Telarc SACD 60615 (along with the Rite of Spring).

Post by mwagner1962 February 14, 2008 (9 of 11)
krisjan said:

P. Jarvi's Nielsen Sym 5 is on Telarc SACD 60615 (along with the Rite of Spring).

Yes, I own this SACD....however, as much as I love the Cincinnati Symphony, the performance that Jarvi got out of the Chicago band was totally stunning...

Cheers,

Post by krisjan February 14, 2008 (10 of 11)
mwagner1962 said:

Yes, I own this SACD....however, as much as I love the Cincinnati Symphony, the performance that Jarvi got out of the Chicago band was totally stunning...

Cheers,

I figured that's what you intended but wasn't sure.

Page: 1 2 next

Closed