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Discussion: Beethoven: Symphony No. 7 - Fischer

Posts: 17
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Post by Windsurfer April 1, 2008 (1 of 17)
In another (somewhat hijacked) thread Jared Sacks said:

"There have been positive and negative thoughts on our
mixing the Beethoven 7th with other works of the same year.
Our feeling was that in doing this, there is an extra
dimension and perspective as to these works and their period in time."

Now that I have seen what was incorporated I think the idea is fascintating, but I personally would not have provided excerpts but rather entire works, not possible I realize then to include everything, but still I dislike disembodied parts. I'm not, however, using that as an excuse to not order (I already did) but simply to express an opinion! Please no disembodied parts for the upcoming Dvorak 7th!

Post by Cherubino April 9, 2009 (2 of 17)
Using isolated movements as filler (eliminate the Wilms and the complete Weber could have been included) is unacceptable, and this disc should be avoided if for no other reason than to deliver that message to the usually commendable Channel Classics and Mr. Fischer. I understand your concept here, and that you don't consider them filler, but I think is was misguided. You could have made your point well enough without the Wilms.

Post by Windsurfer April 9, 2009 (3 of 17)
On playing this 7th, I found it to be one of the most exciting and generally all around satisfying accounts of the music I ever heard. I certainly would not boycott the disc because I disagree (and I do disagree) with the choice of what else is on the disc. This could have been issued with no other work and it would have still comprised good value for money so fine is the performance and the sound.

Still, Jared no more single movements please - I was going to say no more bleeding chunks, but that would be going too far, a single movement isn't all that bloody!

And thanks again to all concerned for a really wonderful Beethoven's Seventh!

Post by Cherubino April 9, 2009 (4 of 17)
Windsurfer said:

On playing this 7th, I found it to be one of the most exciting and generally all around satisfying accounts of the music I ever heard. I certainly would not boycott the disc because I disagree (and I do disagree) with the choice of what else is on the disc. This could have been issued with no other work and it would have still comprised good value for money so fine is the performance and the sound.

Still, Jared no more single movements please - I was going to say no more bleeding chunks, but that would be going too far, a single movement isn't all that bloody!

And thanks again to all concerned for a really wonderful Beethoven's Seventh!

With a tariff of @$24, and Vanska (coupled with the 2nd), Kleiber (coupled with the 5th), and Haitink (coupled with the triple concerto) SACDs out there (and I have them all), as good as it is, I don't see this release as competative.

Post by Windsurfer April 9, 2009 (5 of 17)
Cherubino said:

With a tariff of @$24, and Vanska (coupled with the 2nd), Kleiber (coupled with the 5th), and Haitink (coupled with the triple concerto) SACDs out there (and I have them all), as good as it is, I don't see this release as competative.

Well, I pay $74 for my seat every time I attend a Boston Symphony concert, that plus lodging and meals - we don't live just a hop, skip and jump from Boston.

I paid something more than that for seats in Carnegie Hall to hear JF with the Bavarian Radio Symphony last month and JF didn't even show up - we heard Shaham instead.

This SACD on my system which is modest in the rear channels but pretty striking soundwise in the front, gives me perhaps somewhere in the neighborhood of 85 to 90 percent of the experience of a blind person in the concert hall. For a measly $24.00 that is a bargain. Moreover I get to hear it repetively - whenever I choose. I suppose if one were only listening in stereo, one might have a different perspective.

Neither the BIS nor the LSO Live have that kind of sound quality. I have and enjoy all three. I would never want to have passed up this recording.

Post by tommwi April 9, 2009 (6 of 17)
Cherubino said:

this disc should be avoided ...

That’s ridiculous! A disc should be considered for what’s on it, and not for what’s NOT on it. Fischer wanted to make a statement here with this coupling and the only thing you are left with is to try and understand it, stay with it or move on. I incidentally did NOT understand the point making here, until I was told about it…

This 7th one can be recommended for what’s going on in the coda of the last movement - alone! The fortissimo markings here (actually fortississimo) are played with a joyous weighty fury and forward drive rarely heard. I doubt anyone in the violin section felt any kind of boredom here – and it can be heard! Not perfect playing but a lifelike playing. This performance also scores in its ability to bring forward contrasting emotions of the main tonalities… To miss a chance for you or others to form your own opinion of this and much more, for reasons of what is not there, is insane and in the end a highly unmusical standpoint. I wish for more creativity in forming album content! This is a good one for me, when I finally got around understanding it… As is this somewhat controversial performance.

Post by Windsurfer April 9, 2009 (7 of 17)
Oh, yes - Crochet's price is about $16.06 USD. Add on shipping but realize that they currently have all Channels on sale when you buy more than one. The price becomes quite reasonable.

Post by Cherubino April 9, 2009 (8 of 17)
Windsurfer said:

Well, I pay $74 for my seat every time I attend a Boston Symphony concert, that plus lodging and meals - we don't live just a hop, skip and jump from Boston.

I paid something more than that for seats in Carnegie Hall to hear JF with the Bavarian Radio Symphony last month and JF didn't even show up - we heard Shaham instead.

This SACD on my system which is modest in the rear channels but pretty striking soundwise in the front, gives me perhaps somewhere in the neighborhood of 85 to 90 percent of the experience of a blind person in the concert hall. For a measly $24.00 that is a bargain. Moreover I get to hear it repetively - whenever I choose. I suppose if one were only listening in stereo, one might have a different perspective.

Neither the BIS nor the LSO Live have that kind of sound quality. I have and enjoy all three. I would never want to have passed up this recording.

I too spend a great deal of money attending concerts and operas, and when they start programming excerpts, they'll hear about it too.

Post by channel April 9, 2009 (9 of 17)
Cherubino said:

I too spend a great deal of money attending concerts and operas, and when they start progaming excerpts they'll hear about it too.

WOW! Great to see such opinions being expressed. It is clear that the record label never wins.

Most concerts up to the 1900's were long evening with snippets of pieces. Ivan had seen a number of programs from that period where this kind of programing would have been played. (not even the complete 7th.) That is where this idea came from but then to be more specific to add works from that period in time for the perspective point of view. Most feedback has not been positive on this and the message is clear. It was still fun to do. Just putting Beethoven symphonies together was such a typical way of recording. We were just trying to be creative!

Jared

Post by Cherubino April 9, 2009 (10 of 17)
channel said:

WOW! Great to see such opinions being expressed. It is clear that the record label never wins.

Most concerts up to the 1900's were long evening with snippets of pieces. Ivan had seen a number of programs from that period where this kind of programing would have been played. (not even the complete 7th.) That is where this idea came from but then to be more specific to add works from that period in time for the perspective point of view. Most feedback has not been positive on this and the message is clear. It was still fun to do. Just putting Beethoven symphonies together was such a typical way of recording. We were just trying to be creative!

Jared

It's not that there's not another work of Beethoven included (since you're not recording a cycle, there's no reason for that limitation). If Channel had included the complete Weber, the Rossini, and omitted the Wilms, it would have been a great release. I happen to like the Weber and don't like having such a fine, well recorded performance, end where it does. That said, keep up the great work, and do continue to take creative risks. Since you say, "the message is clear", and my local Borders has it for 40% off, when I calm down I may buy the disc anyway (the 7th is a splendid performance), but, please, henceforth, full works only. I don't want to end up with a release that includes "A Pine of Rome", somewhere down the line. As for, "the label that never wins"; I own just short of a dozen of your SACDs (including all six volumes of the Podger/Cooper Mozart piano sonatas, the Bach b minor Mass, and Ivan's Mahler 2 and 4) and you folks are right up there with the best of them.

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