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Discussion: Tutti! - Orchestral Sampler

Posts: 10

Post by DSD July 3, 2008 (1 of 10)
Especially considering that the Master tapes are 24 Bit 88.2kHz recorded in 1997 and before. Publish date is 1997 and Copyright date is 2008. Up until just a few years ago Reference Recordings Masters were 24 Bit 88.2kHz so those are no likely to be released as 24-bit 176.4 kHz HRx DVD-R data discs. Reference Recordings why not release the lower resolution 24 Bit 88.2kHz as SACDs after all you can keep the HDCD layer too?

Reference Recordings said they would make a couple of samplers in the SACD format. This one is made in Japan and distributed in China and Hong Kong by Naxos International. Inside the back cover it says "Reference Recordings is very grateful to Naxos Far East for making this SACD possible." I did a google search and it appears that International Records of Hong Kong is the only place to purchase it, they have a store on eBay.

This is 2 channel Stereo only SACD as Reference Recordings wasn't recording multi-channel back then, if you remember Telarc's DSD recordings from the late 1990's were also 2 channel.

I enjoyed the entire SACD but the final two tracks are thrilling extremely realistic music that will make this one of my favorite demo discs. Mussorgsky's Hut of Baba Yaga and the Great Gate of Kiev from Pictures At An Exhibition with Eiji Oue conducting the Minnesota Orchestra.

I don't currently have an HDCD decoder, maybe someone who has a decoder can compare the SACD and HDCD layers.

Note; the shiny aluminum outer box is hard to photograph, it actually looks perfect, the threads are an artifact of my camera. I tired several pictures and this is the best I could do. It really is a nice looking outer box. In the picture from International Records ad on eBay the shrink wrap makes the box look scratched, it is not.

TUTTI!: An Orchestral Sampler
Reference Recordings RR-906SACD

1 Rimsky-Korsakov: Dance of the Tumblers
Eiji Oue/Minnesota Orchestra

2 Chadwick: Intermezzo e Humoreske from Suite symphonique
Jose Serebrier/Czech State Philharmonic

3 Ron Nelson: Rocky Point Holiday
Jerry Junkin/Dallas Wind Symphony

4-5 Igor Stravinsky: The Firebird—Berceuse and Finale
Eiji Oue/Minnesota Orchestra

6 Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart: Piano Concerto No. 21—Andante
Eugene Istomin, piano, Gerard Schwarz/Seattle Symphony

7 Paul Paray: Symphony No. 1 (excerpt)
James Paul/Royal Scottish National. Orchestra

8 Anton Bruckner: Symphony No. 9—Scherzo
Skrowaczewski/Minnesota Orchestra;

9 Antonio Vivaldi: Concerto in F, RV 569—Allegro
Nicholas McGegan/Philharmonia Baroque

10 Malcolm Arnold: The Padstow Lifeboat
Jerry Junkin/Dallas Wind Symphony

11 Jacques Ibert: Escales—animé (Valencia)
Eiji Oue/Minnesota Orchestra

12 R. Strauss: The Times of Day—Der Morgen
Timothy Seelig/Turtle Creek Chorale, Fort Worth Chamber Orchestra;

13 Leos Janácek: The Makropulos Case, Symphonic Synthesis, Act II
José Serebrier/Czech State Philharmonic;

14 Eiji Oue, E.C.F., from Presque Isle
Eiji Oue/Minnesota Orchestra (World Premiere)

15-16 Mussorgsky-Ravel: Pictures at an Exhibition(excerpts)
Eiji Oue/Minnesota Orchestra.

I will listen a few more times a write a complete review on PFO but before I do I want to hear back from others especially someone who has compared SACD and HDCD layers.

Post by zeus July 3, 2008 (2 of 10)
I wouldn't exactly call one sampler targeted at the Asian market much of a commitment to the format.

Post by soundboy July 3, 2008 (3 of 10)
I have one coming in the mail.

Post by DSD July 11, 2008 (4 of 10)
zeus said:

I wouldn't exactly call one sampler targeted at the Asian market much of a commitment to the format.

Looks like this Reference Recordings SACD is now officially available in the USA, It's on the Reference Recordings and Elusive Disc websites.

Reference Recordings says more SACDs will follow. If you remember they were not willing to take the financial risk to release SACD or DVD-Audio. Looks like their Far East partners are taking care of that.

Got this in an email from Reference Recordings today:

And a Big Surprise!
The first Reference Recordings SACD is here!

Through a special licensing arrangement with Naxos International Far East (our distributor for Hong Kong and China), we are starting a select series of SACD releases. In Asia, the all-time best selling RR title is TUTTI! Naxos has chosen to start the series with this title and has manufactured it at Sony Japan, in a deluxe hybrid SACD version, with special metallic silver packaging. Of interest to audiophiles, the CD layer is HDCD encoded. We expect there will be more titles to follow.

HYBRID STEREO Super Audio Compact Disc : Plays on all SACD and CD players. Don't miss this, our ever-popular collection of orchestral favorites! RR-906 SACD contains the same tracks as RR-906 HDCD, including the World Premiere recording of Eiji Oue conducting the Minnesota Orchestra in his own composition "E.C.F." from Presque Isle.

Over 71 minutes of music! 16 memorable tracks from world renowned orchestras, recorded as always by 7- time Grammy nominee Keith O. Johnson.

TUTTI! - RR-906 SACD

http://www.referencerecordings.com/RR_906SACD.asp

Post by flyingdutchman July 14, 2008 (5 of 10)
When full albums come out, that is when I buy. Samplers? Phooie!

Post by Windsurfer July 14, 2008 (6 of 10)
flyingdutchman said:

When full albums come out, that is when I buy. Samplers? Phooie!

That, for the most part, is my attitude as well.

PentaTone's is an exception because the "set up" tracks make it worthwhile.

Post by raffells July 14, 2008 (7 of 10)
flyingdutchman said:

When full albums come out, that is when I buy. Samplers? Phooie!

I agree.
Their is a suspicion about the origins of these items on the sampler,
some were CDs and some HDCD which is a little better.later ones were 88.2 or better.
From Refrence records own website.
SACD and DVD-A
Some of you have inquired about our plans for these high-resolution formats.

Our friends in the industry, who have experience with SACD and/or DVD-A advise us now to "sit them out." We were hoping that DVD-A would win this senseless format war, but for many reasons, it did not, and now it appears to be a dead issue. Despite a withdrawal of support from Sony, its "birth mother," SACD does continue, with advocacy from several other labels. But we are advised from reliable sources that the potential sales of a new SACD release is low, no more than a few thousand discs worldwide, and often less. In view of the considerable investment of work and capital necessary to edit and master for SACD, there is no chance for profit.


There is also the question of sound quality, RR's prime calling card. Our sizeable backlog of discrete five-channel masters is archived in high-resolution PCM. We have been advised by digital experts that, to convert our masters to SACD--in the digital realm or by PCM-to-analogue-to-DSD--would degrade our renowned sonics unacceptably.

So, RR has decided to bypass this format war and wait for the introduction of BluRay, which should be in 2006. For further news, please watch this space.

Post by DSD July 14, 2008 (8 of 10)
raffells said:

I agree.
Their is a suspicion about the origins of these items on the sampler,
some were CDs and some HDCD which is a little better.later ones were 88.2 or better.
From Refrence records own website.
SACD and DVD-A
Some of you have inquired about our plans for these high-resolution formats.

Our friends in the industry, who have experience with SACD and/or DVD-A advise us now to "sit them out." We were hoping that DVD-A would win this senseless format war, but for many reasons, it did not, and now it appears to be a dead issue. Despite a withdrawal of support from Sony, its "birth mother," SACD does continue, with advocacy from several other labels. But we are advised from reliable sources that the potential sales of a new SACD release is low, no more than a few thousand discs worldwide, and often less. In view of the considerable investment of work and capital necessary to edit and master for SACD, there is no chance for profit.


There is also the question of sound quality, RR's prime calling card. Our sizeable backlog of discrete five-channel masters is archived in high-resolution PCM. We have been advised by digital experts that, to convert our masters to SACD--in the digital realm or by PCM-to-analogue-to-DSD--would degrade our renowned sonics unacceptably.

So, RR has decided to bypass this format war and wait for the introduction of BluRay, which should be in 2006. For further news, please watch this space.

All the items on the Sampler are from 2 channel 24 Bit 88.2kHz masters, that is what Reference Recordings was using at the time. When the original CDs were released they were HDCD encoded and that version is on the CD layer. You can thank Naxos Hong Kong for this series as they are taking on the financial risks Reference Recordings was unwilling to assume. Naxos Hong Kong is their Far East distributer.

After the experiments Reference Recordings did many years ago Paul Stubblebine was convinced the DSD copy was a perfect replica of the high-rez PCM master but Keith Johnson felt something would be lost in the conversion process. Plus with the cost and financial risks of making either SACD or DVD-Audio he abandoned the idea. BTW DVD-Audio requires no conversion as 24 Bit 88.2kHz is part of the DVD-Audio specification.

So in short were it not for Naxos Far East there never would have been a Reference Recordings SACD. I am hoping this SACD is a big seller and Naxos can release more of the catalog. BTW the Sampler is great and all the selections are complete save one, there is no fading up or down. That one selection that is not complete is an "edited" and much shortened version of the Scherzo from Bruckner's 9th, but it works and works well, it's mini version is extremely enjoyable! And the ending with Oue's exciting take on the Hut of Baba Yaga and the Great Great at Kiev is thrilling in the extreme! No I don't need another Pictures At An Exhibition but these two excepts are welcome indeed!

Post by flyingdutchman July 14, 2008 (9 of 10)
DSD said:

All the items on the Sampler are from 2 channel 24 Bit 88.2kHz masters, that is what Reference Recordings was using at the time. When the original CDs were released they were HDCD encoded and that version is on the CD layer. You can thank Naxos Hong Kong for this series as they are taking on the financial risks Reference Recordings was unwilling to assume. Naxos Hong Kong is their Far East distributer.

After the experiments Reference Recordings did many years ago Paul Stubblebine was convinced the DSD copy was a perfect replica of the high-rez PCM master but Keith Johnson felt something would be lost in the conversion process. Plus with the cost and financial risks of making either SACD or DVD-Audio he abandoned the idea. BTW DVD-Audio requires no conversion as 24 Bit 88.2kHz is part of the DVD-Audio specification.

So in short were it not for Naxos Far East there never would have been a Reference Recordings SACD. I am hoping this SACD is a big seller and Naxos can release more of the catalog. BTW the Sampler is great and all the selections are complete save one, there is no fading up or down. That one selection that is not complete is an "edited" and much shortened version of the Scherzo from Bruckner's 9th, but it works and works well, it's many version is extremely enjoyable! And the ending with Oue's exciting take on the Hut of Baba Yaga and the Great Great at Kiev is thrilling in the extreme! No I don't need another Pictures At An Exhibition but these two excepts are welcome indeed!

But not worthy of buying unless it is decided to include full albums.

Post by DSD July 15, 2008 (10 of 10)
flyingdutchman said:

But not worthy of buying unless it is decided to include full albums.

In defense of samplers may I say there are many recording companies and many composers I will never have discovered were it not for Samplers. Case in point two of my favorite SACD labels DMP and AudioQuest I discovered through Samplers. So I do enjoy Samplers and find them very useful.

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