add to wish list | library


11 of 15 recommend this,
would you recommend it?

yes | no

 

Discussion: Rachmaninov: Piano Concerto No. 2, Moments Musicaux - Lazic, Petrenko

Posts: 33
Page: prev 1 2 3 4 next

Post by andrewb November 16, 2008 (11 of 33)
DSD said:

Andrewb I love live classical recordings and I love applause, if the performance is really good I often join in. But I agree live recordings should be noted on the packaging.

I don't understand why you would want the applause on a separate track? I would think it should at the conclusion of the piece where it actually occurred?

Also I would consider the deletion of applause from a live recording to be undo tampering, and a crime!

I have Hough's Rachmaninoff Piano Concertos on Hyperion and enjoy them very much! The back of the SACD clearly states: "The four concertos were recorded live in concerts at the Eugene McDermott Concert Hall, Morton H Meyerson Symphony Centerm Dallas"

I am curious as to what is exactly wrong with applause in a live recording? At least in a classical concert the audience does actually wait until the music has ended before applauding. I am really confused on your position?

If one has the applause on a separate track immediately after the piece in question then one can choose to listen to it or not: this surely pleases everybody. If one listens to the piece with applause one should notice no break.
A few, very few discs have this separate track like, Abbado's Mahler 6 and the recent Strauss Alpine from Jansons. I cannot understand why companies do not add a separate track routinely, if they wish to include the appluase.

Yes, the Hough set does say clearly it is from live and I was aware of the applause being there, from a radio interview with Simon Perry (I think) before I, reluctantly, purchased the set in spite of the applause. Simon Perry said Hyperion normally removed the applause, but in this instance they wanted to retain a special air about these recordings and so kept the applause (that is probably not exactly what he said but it was something to that effect).
I think the Hough discs very good as perfomances but cannot live with the applause. The Lazic disc has no mention of it being from live on the packaging, inside it says recorded at Royal Festival Hall, but that is all.

I cannot explain precisely what is wrong with applause at the end of an audio only recording, though I accept it on a DVD. To me listening to a great work of music in ones home should be followed by silence (of which there is too little in the world). The sound of people applauding is offensive to my ears, the cacophonous noise is extremely disturbing.
I can only liken it to being filled with awe on looking at a great painting such as a Goya or Velasquez's Las meninas and then immediately afterwards being presented with obscene, pornographic images. Applause has a similar effect on me (or what I imagine would be the effect with the paintings).

It is very difficult for me to understand how people could ever want applause to be included, but obviously there are those who do. Using a separate track for applause seems to be a good solution, I would have to program the applause out but that is a small inconvenience.

Post by tommwi November 16, 2008 (12 of 33)
wolfE said:

I think, this is a DSD recording. So please some comments concerning interpretation and sound quality!

The Channel site says it's PCM.

Post by channel November 16, 2008 (13 of 33)
andrewb said:

If one has the applause on a separate track immediately after the piece in question then one can choose to listen to it or not: this surely pleases everybody. If one listens to the piece with applause one should notice no break.
A few, very few discs have this separate track like, Abbado's Mahler 6 and the recent Strauss Alpine from Jansons. I cannot understand why companies do not add a separate track routinely, if they wish to include the appluase.

Yes, the Hough set does say clearly it is from live and I was aware of the applause being there, from a radio interview with Simon Perry (I think) before I, reluctantly, purchased the set in spite of the applause. Simon Perry said Hyperion normally removed the applause, but in this instance they wanted to retain a special air about these recordings and so kept the applause (that is probably not exactly what he said but it was something to that effect).
I think the Hough discs very good as perfomances but cannot live with the applause. The Lazic disc has no mention of it being from live on the packaging, inside it says recorded at Royal Festival Hall, but that is all.

I cannot explain precisely what is wrong with applause at the end of an audio only recording, though I accept it on a DVD. To me listening to a great work of music in ones home should be followed by silence (of which there is too little in the world). The sound of people applauding is offensive to my ears, the cacophonous noise is extremely disturbing.
I can only liken it to being filled with awe on looking at a great painting such as a Goya or Velasquez's Las meninas and then immediately afterwards being presented with obscene, pornographic images. Applause has a similar effect on me (or what I imagine would be the effect with the paintings).

It is very difficult for me to understand how people could ever want applause to be included, but obviously there are those who do. Using a separate track for applause seems to be a good solution, I would have to program the applause out but that is a small inconvenience.

Dear Forum,
I will agree that we should have put the information in that the Concerto was done live. I hardly ever record live and with the Moment Musicaux being done in sessions, I just did not think of it. There was no way not to have applause because the clapping started before the last note had really even been played. (which shows how responsive the public was to this performance. To put an extra track for the applause in is an option but really superfluous. If you are grabbing your remote for the extra track, you can just as well press the fast forward or 'next track' button. I tried to be tasteful in the fadeout. Not to quick and not too long. To me, the applause does add to the emotional impact that one gets from a live concert, it is part of the experience. We had ten minutes after the concert to do a couple of repairs with no time to do an ending without. I would not have wanted it any other way. I find it interesting that because of this applause, you cannot enjoy the first 35 minutes of music and the next 30 minutes after.
Everyone experiences music in their own way - but surely the music making being done by Dejan and the orchestra are enough reason to continue listening to this recording!

greetings
Jared Sacks

Post by channel November 16, 2008 (14 of 33)
channel said:

Dear Forum,
I will agree that we should have put the information in that the Concerto was done live. I hardly ever record live and with the Moment Musicaux being done in sessions, I just did not think of it. There was no way not to have applause because the clapping started before the last note had really even been played. (which shows how responsive the public was to this performance. To put an extra track for the applause in is an option but really superfluous. If you are grabbing your remote for the extra track, you can just as well press the fast forward or 'next track' button. I tried to be tasteful in the fadeout. Not to quick and not too long. To me, the applause does add to the emotional impact that one gets from a live concert, it is part of the experience. We had ten minutes after the concert to do a couple of repairs with no time to do an ending without. I would not have wanted it any other way. I find it interesting that because of this applause, you cannot enjoy the first 35 minutes of music and the next 30 minutes after.
Everyone experiences music in their own way - but surely the music making being done by Dejan and the orchestra are enough reason to continue listening to this recording!

greetings
Jared Sacks

The channel site is incorrect with the comma. it says SACD/hybrid pcm, stereo
it should read SACD/hybrid, pcm,
I have only been making DSD recordings since 2001. Will have this changed today!

Jared

Post by channel November 16, 2008 (15 of 33)
channel said:

Dear Forum,
I will agree that we should have put the information in that the Concerto was done live. I hardly ever record live and with the Moment Musicaux being done in sessions, I just did not think of it. There was no way not to have applause because the clapping started before the last note had really even been played. (which shows how responsive the public was to this performance. To put an extra track for the applause in is an option but really superfluous. If you are grabbing your remote for the extra track, you can just as well press the fast forward or 'next track' button. I tried to be tasteful in the fadeout. Not to quick and not too long. To me, the applause does add to the emotional impact that one gets from a live concert, it is part of the experience. We had ten minutes after the concert to do a couple of repairs with no time to do an ending without. I would not have wanted it any other way. I find it interesting that because of this applause, you cannot enjoy the first 35 minutes of music and the next 30 minutes after.
Everyone experiences music in their own way - but surely the music making being done by Dejan and the orchestra are enough reason to continue listening to this recording!

greetings
Jared Sacks

I just talked to my wife (who makes the packaging), I forgot but by the reprint the word 'live' was added onto the inlay.

greetings
Jared

Post by TerraEpon November 16, 2008 (16 of 33)
channel said:

If you are grabbing your remote for the extra track, you can just as well press the fast forward or 'next track' button.

I think the point is that one can program it to not include the track. Also, these days with people ripping music to their computer (granted perhaps people on THIS forum don't as much, but still) it makes it far easier to remove if unwanted.

And no, there's nothing "criminal" about removing it. It's not part of the music, it's a reaction to it. Some of us don't like it. Certainly people here aren't the only ones -- I've seen a number of reviews on Musicweb mentioning dislike, and let's not even talk about Amazon...

Post by andrewb November 16, 2008 (17 of 33)
channel said:

Dear Forum,
I will agree that we should have put the information in that the Concerto was done live. I hardly ever record live and with the Moment Musicaux being done in sessions, I just did not think of it. There was no way not to have applause because the clapping started before the last note had really even been played. (which shows how responsive the public was to this performance. To put an extra track for the applause in is an option but really superfluous. If you are grabbing your remote for the extra track, you can just as well press the fast forward or 'next track' button. I tried to be tasteful in the fadeout. Not to quick and not too long. To me, the applause does add to the emotional impact that one gets from a live concert, it is part of the experience. We had ten minutes after the concert to do a couple of repairs with no time to do an ending without. I would not have wanted it any other way. I find it interesting that because of this applause, you cannot enjoy the first 35 minutes of music and the next 30 minutes after.
Everyone experiences music in their own way - but surely the music making being done by Dejan and the orchestra are enough reason to continue listening to this recording!

greetings
Jared Sacks

Thank you for your comment about the approach take by Channel. When I listen to music I almost always program the piece I want to listen to, at the end I do not want to be rushing to the remote to press stop or next or whatever, this would offset much of the pleasure of the preceding music. It sounds silly perhaps but knowing that there is applause at the end, and that I will want to stop it quickly with the remote, puts me slightly on edge throughout the listening, in otherwords I cannot fully relax.

I have over 40 Channel SACDs and some RBCD discs and most of them are extremely good in performance and sound, Wisepelway's recent Shostakovich is very impressive and the new Netherlands Bach Society seems excellent like the rest of their series. I shall have to be extra careful when looking at your web site to check whether a performance is live, and therefore may include applause.

Post by channel November 16, 2008 (18 of 33)
TerraEpon said:

I think the point is that one can program it to not include the track. Also, these days with people ripping music to their computer (granted perhaps people on THIS forum don't as much, but still) it makes it far easier to remove if unwanted.

And no, there's nothing "criminal" about removing it. It's not part of the music, it's a reaction to it. Some of us don't like it. Certainly people here aren't the only ones -- I've seen a number of reviews on Musicweb mentioning dislike, and let's not even talk about Amazon...

If I do live recordings I will certainly take these thoughts into consideration. With this recording however, the applause started before the last note was finished so whatever options available, you are going to hear clapping. I don't think you would have been happy if I tracked the applause before the last note!

greetings
jared

Post by andrewb November 16, 2008 (19 of 33)
wolfE said:

I have been looking forward to this release with high expectattions, because there are only few Rach 2 in good sound quality. I think, this is a DSD recording. So please some comments concerning interpretation and sound quality!

The sound quality is good although not Channel's best. The piano is well caught but is more prominent than in other recordings of this work and it does not integrate with the orchestra as well. The bass notes in the opening couple of minutes are particularly noticeable, too much so for me, they sound or are played hard and very dead.
Conductor and soloist seem not always to have the same view of the concerto and often do not combine effectively together, unlike Ashkenazy and Previn who blend magnificently. Previn had an instinctive feel for Rachmaninov when he was at the LSO. Hough and Litton also work well together and the lines are more clearly held than in the Lazic, Petrenko account. The Lazic/Petrenko also often lacks the necessary forward momentum to make Rachmaninov's music work.
Even if this disc did not have applause I would not be able to recommend it in preference to either Hough or the RBCD of Ashkenazy.

I would suggest waiting until other people have expressed an opinion before purchasing.

Post by wolfE November 16, 2008 (20 of 33)
andrewb said:

The sound quality is good although not Channel's best. The piano is well caught but is more prominent than in other recordings of this work and it does not integrate with the orchestra as well. The bass notes in the opening couple of minutes are particularly noticeable, too much so for me, they sound or are played hard and very dead.
Conductor and soloist seem not always to have the same view of the concerto and often do not combine effectively together, unlike Ashkenazy and Previn who blend magnificently. Previn had an instinctive feel for Rachmaninov when he was at the LSO. Hough and Litton also work well together and the lines are more clearly held than in the Lazic, Petrenko account. The Lazic/Petrenko also often lacks the necessary forward momentum to make Rachmaninov's music work.
Even if this disc did not have applause I would not be able to recommend it in preference to either Hough or the RBCD of Ashkenazy.

I would suggest waiting until other people have expressed an opinion before purchasing.

Thank you for your detailed comment, though it leaves me disappointed. What a pity!

Page: prev 1 2 3 4 next

Closed