Thread: SACD Layers won't play or skipping problems

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Post by gortonandy December 16, 2008 (11 of 85)
mariano said:

Also my Sony XA777ES has problems with some hybrids, about 15 on >300.
With some SACD there are dropouts in the sounds.
With others, the player reads the TOC more slowly, after it needs a lot of time to find track 1, finally it doesn't play the track from the beginning. In this case if I use the "back" key I can hear the disc from the beginning and without problems.
With just 2 or 3 discs the result is TOC error.
All these SACDs play fine on a OPPO 980h, but I prefer the sound of the Sony.
I agree with both the theory of the borderline discs and the theory of the player temperature.
The skipping problem is more serious during the summer, especially when the player is working since one hour or two. Evidently, some metal expansion occurs, so that the laser doesn't work correctly.
During the cold season, or when the player is just switched on, I can hear the most of the problematic hybrids.
I also agree that some SACD production stocks are at the limits of the specs or just outside.
For example, the Tommy SACD had skipping problems or TOC error. I buyed a new copy and it plays fine.
Also Elton John GBYBR disc 2 is defective, I buyed a new copy but it works worse (same production stock?).
Three MFSL by Patricia Barber had skipping problems, but new copies play fine. In this case the super jewel box was sligthly different (new production stock?).
With "Blue Train" by Coltrane, only the third copy plays fine.
I think that both SACD and SACD player producers don't worry about the reliability of the SACD system.
I'm worried because some SACD seems to degrade over the time. I have 2 (Hiatt - Bring the family and Alison Krauss - Live) that show some large spots on the edge, as the CD and SACD layer are separating!

Anyone else can tell his experience? What we can do?
P.S.: I never had problems with Japan SACD, Hybrids or not

I have just found some threads on other sites about some DSD chips overheating, causing the reading problems that get worse with time (as the unit gets hotter) and the answer seems to be a fan and heatsink on the dsd chip as you would find on a cpu on a computer motherboard! One commentator reckoned his chip was running at 80 Celsius! When I get round to it I'm going to experiment with my Pioneer DV757ai (I've already replaced the laser in it). Interestingly I also now have a budget Sony SCDXE597 model and this plays ALL discs no problem!
There is also the question of calibration. I haven't tried this (yet) but here's a link on how to do it on the XB940:

http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.mpl?forum=hirez&n=124289&highlight=xb940&r=&session=

I would love someone to try this on a XA777ES or XA9000ES and report back!!!!!

Post by Claude December 16, 2008 (12 of 85)
How would an overheating converter chip affect the reading of discs, which seems to be a problem related to the laser mechanics?

To check if heat is an issue, playing some discs with open player enclosure should do the trick.

With my XA777, the reading problems with some discs also occur when the player is cold, so I don't think heat is a factor.

Post by stvnharr December 16, 2008 (13 of 85)
Reading problems are almost always related to a diminishing laser in the player. The only real solution is laser replacement. The first generation players were often known for this, but second and later generation players don't see to be so bothered, just judging by forum postings on this subject.

Post by onebit December 17, 2008 (14 of 85)
stvnharr said:

Reading problems are almost always related to a diminishing laser in the player. The only real solution is laser replacement. The first generation players were often known for this, but second and later generation players don't see to be so bothered, just judging by forum postings on this subject.

I'm about to replace the laser in my Denon 3910 because it is now starting to act up with SACD's; previously it also refused to play certain older CD's (?).

My Denon 2900 is now relegated to playing DVD's, as it won't play CD's or SACD's properly (it still has the original laser with tons of hours on it).

There seems to be a relationship with heat - if you've been using the player for more than an hour, these problems seem to show up. DVD's, however, don't seem to be affected.

Thankfully, my Ayre C5xe shows none of these symptoms and will happily play all day long without bother (I think it uses a Pioneer transport).

Post by trntbl December 17, 2008 (15 of 85)
stvnharr said:

Reading problems are almost always related to a diminishing laser in the player. The only real solution is laser replacement. The first generation players were often known for this, but second and later generation players don't see to be so bothered, just judging by forum postings on this subject.

According to this site, which seems to be based on quite respectable knowledge, the lasers *never* fail:

http://www.lampizator.eu/LAMPIZATOR/TRANSPORT/laser/Laserology.html

I have very little personal experience, I've repaired only one transport (soldered additional cap to servo board). My 25 year old CDM1 transport is still running nicely, and I have had major problems with two brand new Denons years ago. So in my experience these problems don't relate to age.

kristian

Post by stvnharr December 17, 2008 (16 of 85)
trntbl said:

According to this site, which seems to be based on quite respectable knowledge, the lasers *never* fail:

http://www.lampizator.eu/LAMPIZATOR/TRANSPORT/laser/Laserology.html

I have very little personal experience, I've repaired only one transport (soldered additional cap to servo board). My 25 year old CDM1 transport is still running nicely, and I have had major problems with two brand new Denons years ago. So in my experience these problems don't relate to age.

kristian

Interesting read for sure.
However, the laser transport mechanisms in sacd players have to do more than those is rbcd players as the there are two sets of laser/mechanism adjustments, one for rbcd and one for sacd. All transport mechanisms are not the same, by any means. I frankly find it a miracle that any of them can work at all, given the tight tolerances of sacd.

Good article.

Post by aristoteles January 26, 2009 (17 of 85)
I’m seeing the same problem with my Sony SCD 555ES (European model). It plays some hybrid discs and others will not work. I recently replaced the optical pick-up, but I’m still seeing the same problem with some hybrid discs. Tried them on in my PS3 and that works fine… Don’t know if there is an issue with older SACD players?

Post by aristoteles January 27, 2009 (18 of 85)
By the way, I can experience a higher mechanical noise when playing SACD. I realize that this has to do with the fact that the disc spins faster, but I can also hear some noise from the pick-up on some SACD, not all. Its quite irritating…
How do you experience your players to perform regarding this matter?

Post by aristoteles January 27, 2009 (19 of 85)
I was reading in the service manual for my SCD 555 ES when I noticed the section where the manual says the following

Resetting Operation at Power ON
If the power is turned on with a disc loaded in the set, a sequence of operation as shown below will be performed.

(The operation varies depending on the type of disc) Condition: continue mode
1. Sled reverse move (sled in)
2. Disc detect
3. IC setting for SACD
4. Servo error signal offset auto adjustment
5. Spindle kick for LD on
6. LD on
7. Focus search
8. Focus servo on
9. Spindle kick
10. Spindle servo on
11. E-F balance auto adjustment
12. Tracking & sled servo on
13. Focus bias auto adjustment
14. Focus servo gain auto adjustment
15. Tracking servo gain auto adjustment
16. Jump to lead-in area
17. Read TOC
18. Auto play (track No.1)

This might explain why I am expiring problems when shifting disc without switching off/on the player.

Post by harbars September 10, 2009 (20 of 85)
I've started getting skipping on two of my SACDs on my SOny 555ES (european). THe discs are Miles Smiles and Headhunters. Just a little bit annoying to say the least, all this talk of fans etc is a bit scary.

It seems the consensus this is a problem with the players, rather than the discs. Is there anything else I can do to stop it?

I really love this player, for both red book and the relatively small number of SACDs I have, I'd be pretty desolate if it needed replaced. Of course with red book there are no such problems and it works flawlessly.

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