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Discussion: Berg: Orchestral Works - Mario Venzago

Posts: 8

Post by Edvin March 8, 2009 (1 of 8)
Like John I was not impressed by this. Strange that the Lyric Suite was not included. I compared the Lulu-suite with Gatti on RCO Live and the latter won hands down.

Post by Chris March 28, 2010 (2 of 8)
Edvin said:

Like John I was not impressed by this. Strange that the Lyric Suite was not included. I compared the Lulu-suite with Gatti on RCO Live and the latter won hands down.

For those who might think I have stopped listening to SACDs.

Don´t worry I am still buying those too.

But here I beg to differ with both Edvin and partly with the two reviews of this absolutely wonderful SACD two disc set from Chandos.

With recording dates running over a couple of years I find the results still remarkably consistent,with no major problems anywhere really.

It is not a purist recording of course, but neither is the Gatti on RCO.

And yes ,soloists are a bit too close.

For some reason they almost always are these days.


But in stereo I fail to hear much of the indicated flatness.

I hear ambient and wonderfully true and realistic recordings with lots of instrumental timbre and realistic hall sound.

From barely audible ppp to fff outbursts I just need to close my eyes to be back in the wonderful Concert Hall in Gothenburg.

Multimiked yes ,but still preserving a very realistic balance of a good orchestra playing great music in a great hall.

I would say that most probably,the same basic microphone set-up as used by the same team for the Järvi Tchaikovsky symphonies on BIS, has been used.

And with very similar results.

Also according to what Mikael Bergek told me during some of the Tchaikovsky sessions, they do use the same basic lay-out for all recordings for SACD release.

Opinions differ here about interpretations on the Tchaikovsky set.

But the general opinion seems to be that those recordings are if not absolutely,at least very close to State of The Art regarding sound.

Exactly the same applies to the Alban Berg set.

Maybe even more so?

Only the music and the scoring differ between these productions,in any major way.

I also have the Gatti RCO Live disc ,but find it much less enjoyable to listen to.

That recording like several others from that source,is a very clear example of up-close, multi-multi miking.

Too many things taped at Live Concerts with an Audience will be made with as many safety procedures taken as possible.

And they most often spell, many many mikes and a very close up mix.

For anyone who really wants to hear both the Concertgebouw orchestra and the famous hall in the very best way on SACD I refer to the two Chailly Mahler recordings released by DECCA in the early days of SACD.

They are still State of The Art.

The Gatti is far from SOTA IMHO.


Impressive on a first listen,yes,but actually, very flat, even a bit synthetic,almost pop music style miking,and unrealistic compared to what the Gothenburg team has achieved.

The RCO Live on the other hand, presents a bloated ,everything upfront, sound that is a bit tiring to listen to.


Alban Berg´s absolutely fantastic music needs to have room to expand in a big generous acoustic like the Gothenburg Hall.

Listening to this set is both spellbinding, hypnotizing and very stimulating.

Never before have the eerie,spooky,haunting timbres and chords and very colourful scoring been presented as realistically in a recording as in this set.

I will rather listen to a maybe not always note perfect,but generally musical and realistic recording of these works than a compromised one like the Gatti.

On days when sound quality is not of paramount importance,I will much rather turn to Karajan ,or Antal Dorati on LP,for "Drei Stücke Für Orkester",than Gatti anyway.

Another clear advantage on the Chandos set is all the extra music on two discs.

It is I think the one and only SACD of Berg´s wonderful Violin Concerto, and in a performance by Isabelle van Keulen of admirable beauty too.

And the British soprano Geraldine McGreevy is a singer with a voice capable of coping very well with the really difficult passages encountered in the pieces from Wozzeck and Lulu.

And unlike some other non German singers today,her German diction is also excellent.

Like Edvin above I also would of course also have liked the Lyric Suite on this set,rather than two versions of Der Wein or the chamber version of Wein Weib Gesang.

But in basically all other respects I find this a set :

Not to be missed!

These discs contain some of the most stunning music composed in the early 20th Century.

And the DSD recordings are IMHO examples of SACD at its very,very best.

As a small but maybe not unimportant observation referring to the ongoing thread about players that keep DSD all the way.

Maybe you need a an SACD player that does not convert to PCM to really appreciate how good these recordings are?

I also just found out that I am not all alone in really liking this set Audiophile Edition declared it one of their discs of the Year for 2009

Post by ramesh September 12, 2014 (3 of 8)
I have just obtained this release, and I urge anyone with an interest in 20th century music to listen to it.

Having read the site reviews here, I agree that the recording of the Opus 6 pieces is rather flat. For this work I far prefer two recordings not on SACD, Abbado's with the VPO and in particular Karajan's BPO recording from the 1970s, which has unequalled emotional charge.

However, this SACD set is essentially priced at 2 discs [ playing for 78 minutes each! ] for the price of one. The opera excerpts on the second disc are superb. I wouldn't want to listen to an audio-only recording of either Wozzeck or Lulu again in their entirety. These fragments really do seem to capture the highlights of those works. I found the DSD stereo sound for the vocal works of demonstration standard in its ability to disentangle the most complex musical weaves without any aural fatigue.

Particularly noteworthy is the violin concerto 'revised 1996 by Douglas Jarman.' Ridiculously, I was unable to find any details on what these revisions are on the website of the music publisher. However, comparing my previous favourite version, the 1936 first recording with Louis Krasner [ I have not heard Faust's recording ], the opening of Part 2 has a dramatic emendation in this Jarman edition. The violin takes a dramatic high leap which mirrors the anguish of the orchestra's opening. I don't know the authority for making this change, but it makes perfect emotional sense to me. I can't see any aesthetic reason to prefer the previous 'customary' version of the score.

Post by fausto K September 13, 2014 (4 of 8)
ramesh said:

... For this work I far prefer two recordings not on SACD, Abbado's with the VPO and in particular Karajan's BPO recording from the 1970s, which has unequalled emotional charge.


Particularly noteworthy is the violin concerto 'revised 1996 by Douglas Jarman.' Ridiculously, I was unable to find any details on what these revisions are on the website of the music publisher. However, comparing my previous favourite version, the 1936 first recording with Louis Krasner [ I have not heard Faust's recording ], the opening of Part 2 has a dramatic emendation in this Jarman edition. The violin takes a dramatic high leap which mirrors the anguish of the orchestra's opening. I don't know the authority for making this change, but it makes perfect emotional sense to me. I can't see any aesthetic reason to prefer the previous 'customary' version of the score.

I agree, both Abbado's and von Karajan's recordings are great. The von Karajan has been remastered for SACD: Schoenberg, Berg, Webern - Karajan

The Faust (w/ Abbado) is mandatory for any aficionado of the violin concerto. Although redbook, the sound is amazingly dynamic and transparent. (a shame that Harmonia Mundi did not consider it worthy of issuing on SACD.)

As to the recording of the concerto on this Venzago disc: I think it's not quite on the same level as the Faust (whose playing is just extraordinary), but Isabelle van Keulen is no doubt a great violinist! I'm not aware whether Faust plays the revised version.

Post by Fugue September 14, 2014 (5 of 8)
fausto K said:

I agree, both Abbado's and von Karajan's recordings are great. The von Karajan has been remastered for SACD: Schoenberg, Berg, Webern - Karajan

And it can be had for a mere $299 on Ebay! :-)

Post by fausto K September 14, 2014 (6 of 8)
Fugue said:

And it can be had for a mere $299 on Ebay! :-)

well, that's certainly not worth it. I have the disc, and it's quite a decent remastering, but not to the extent that you would want to spend that amount of money on it. (I wouldn't, in fact, even if it were the best SACD in the world)

Post by ciderglider September 14, 2014 (7 of 8)
ramesh said:

Particularly noteworthy is the violin concerto 'revised 1996 by Douglas Jarman.' Ridiculously, I was unable to find any details on what these revisions are on the website of the music publisher. However, comparing my previous favourite version, the 1936 first recording with Louis Krasner [ I have not heard Faust's recording ], the opening of Part 2 has a dramatic emendation in this Jarman edition. The violin takes a dramatic high leap which mirrors the anguish of the orchestra's opening. I don't know the authority for making this change, but it makes perfect emotional sense to me. I can't see any aesthetic reason to prefer the previous 'customary' version of the score.

Thanks for bringing the 1996 edition to my attention; I didn't realise that it existed. Is it safe to assume that all post 1996 recordings use this new edition, or do some interpreters prefer the original version?

Post by fausto K September 14, 2014 (8 of 8)
ciderglider said:

... Is it safe to assume that all post 1996 recordings use this new edition, or do some interpreters prefer the original version?

no. Isabelle Faust, for example, is known for resorting to autograph manuscripts, rather than relying on the printed version of the score (or indeed the revised edition). She (together w/ conductor Abbado) might have taken the Jarman revision into account, but will have made her own decisions based on a study of the original autograph. (no mention is made of the Jarman revision in the accompanying booklet to her recording.)

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