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Discussion: Wagner: Der Ring Des Nibelungen - Solti

Posts: 88
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Post by ramesh December 15, 2012 (61 of 88)
Readers may be interested in this obscure Australian book which is still in print :

http://www.parrotpress.com.au/wagner/

Post by akiralx December 15, 2012 (62 of 88)
ramesh said:

Readers may be interested in this obscure Australian book which is still in print :

http://www.parrotpress.com.au/wagner/

Yes, I was looking at it in Melbourne this week. Quite a beautifully produced tome and an interesting read or to just dip into. I recall Klemperer and Bohm are the most recent conductors featured - no Karajan or Solti.

Post by Fitzcaraldo215 December 20, 2012 (63 of 88)
Fitzcaraldo215 said:

Having recently read an excellent pre-publication review of the Decca set by a reviewer I know well and trust completely, it is the Blu-ray that is the winner. Not only is it free of the tyranny of having to flip LP sides or even change CD's, but, according to him, it sounds mighty good on Blu-ray as well, better than the CD and at least comparable to, if not better than, the original vinyl through a Blu- ray player costing a fraction of the vinyl playback scheme he used. Now, that is audio progress.

I am a little late in also reading Richard Lehnert's excellent review of the Decca set in Stereophile. But, he, too, points to the sonic superiority of the Blu-ray over the concurrent or any previous CD masterings of this landmark recording. I was not aware that the 1997 remastering had been done at 48k/24, so the transfer to Blu-ray would have been direct, unlike the downrezzed CD or the converted Esoteric SACD.

That the Blu-ray is sonically superior to the CD might tell us something about hi rez vs. RBCD. On the surface, the resolution is increased only from 44 to 48k, which ought not be that significant. However, the bit depth is increased by a lot from 16 to 24 bits. Admittedly, this would seem overkill given the tape hiss in the origial analog masters. It is only anecdotal evidence, but it is perhaps that increase in bit depth which would appear to account for most of the sonic improvement.

I do not know if we can generalize from this, but it does appear to support a view held by Bob Stuart of Meridian and others. That view is that increased bit depth might be bigger even than higher resolution in the superiority of what we know as hi Rez. Of course, other factors might be at work here. Not saying I consider higher resolution unnecessary or insignificant in adding even further refinement to hi Rez media, but with perhaps diminished returns. However, bit depth appears to be overlooked by many in favor of higher resolution as the key ingredient in improved sound. In much the same way, digital camera buyers often tend to look at just megapixel resolution while ignoring most other factors.

In any case, I am excitedly awaiting my copy for Christmas, so that I can listen to the music and the performance instead of techie speculations.

Happy Holidays.

Post by seth December 20, 2012 (64 of 88)
Fitzcaraldo215 said:

However, bit depth appears to be overlooked by many in favor of higher resolution as the key ingredient in improved sound. In much the same way, digital camera buyers often tend to look at just megapixel resolution while ignoring most other factors.

To fine tune this, the most important thing in a digital camera is the sensor, but it's a lot easier to market cameras on the number of megapixels because that's a simple concrete number. I feel like all the whining over sampling rates and PCM vs DSD is that same thing -- they're simple number, where the highest number is the best.

Post by krisjan December 20, 2012 (65 of 88)
Fitzcaraldo215 said:

I do not know if we can generalize from this, but it does appear to support a view held by Bob Stuart of Meridian and others. That view is that increased bit depth might be bigger even than higher resolution in the superiority of what we know as hi Rez.

This is the same view posited by Bissie when they switched to 24/44 recording years ago. BIS's switch to higher sampling rate IMO was to molify the "numbers" people on this site but my experience with BIS SACD's is that the 24/44 SACD's sound just as fine as the more recent 96/24 discs.

Post by tream December 20, 2012 (66 of 88)
ramesh said:

Readers may be interested in this obscure Australian book which is still in print :

http://www.parrotpress.com.au/wagner/

Does anyone know of a US source for this - it looks to be an interesting book.

Post by craigv December 26, 2012 (67 of 88)
I am very impressed with the Decca Blu-Ray audio version. I dont own the Esoteric SACD, but I do have other Esoteric SACDs, and about 200 of my 1,400 recordings are SACD format.

My system uses two Sony SCD-XA5400ES SACD players linked via the HATS feature to a STR-DA5600ES receiver. My Oppo BDP-95 Audiophile Blu-Ray player has an excellent premium DAC. Most critical listening done thru Stax Electrostatic SR-507 headphones.

The high definition Decca Blu-Ray is worth the price and is providing an amazing improvement that rivals any SACD playback. Let me tell you, the capability to have the entire ring on one disc, the ease of navigation, is absolutely wonderful. I had the two prior Solti Ring masterings on CD, and as many of you report, even though this uses the same 1997 remastering, the high definition capacity and tweaking the engineer did is breathtaking in improvement.

Gawd though, dont be surprised by the weight of the box. 15 lbs does not sound that heavy. Especially considering all the old vinyl I still have about. But it is heavy, with all the materials. I liked the Gramophone features and reviews included, already had the Culshaw book.

But that little Blu-Ray disc is a marvel. I hope Universal Music does more of this. By the way, my favorite Ring is the Karajan, and while it does not have the historical audio legendry that belongs to the Solti, I hope this project is a success, and that Universal will produce the Karajan Ring as well.

Post by Links December 27, 2012 (68 of 88)
Hypothetical
Analogue copies of the "fixed" masters are miraculously found in Argentina
so yet another release will come.
Direct to DSD on SACD and
45 rpm 180 gram LPs mastered by Bernie Grundman.

Post by tream December 28, 2012 (69 of 88)
The high definition Decca Blu-Ray is worth the price and is providing an amazing improvement that rivals any SACD playback. Let me tell you, the capability to have the entire ring on one disc, the ease of navigation, is absolutely wonderful. I had the two prior Solti Ring masterings on CD, and as many of you report, even though this uses the same 1997 remastering, the high definition capacity and tweaking the engineer did is breathtaking in improvement.



But that little Blu-Ray disc is a marvel. I hope Universal Music does more of this. By the way, my favorite Ring is the Karajan, and while it does not have the historical audio legendry that belongs to the Solti, I hope this project is a success, and that Universal will produce the Karajan Ring as well.

Interesting. I have the Solti Ring on LP, open reel tape, and SACD (which was a disappointment, IMHO, since the source material was the digital files). I am tempted to get this as well, for the packaging and the Blue Ray.

I think the Karajan Ring is very interesting, as well. I have that one in the last mastering of it done a few years back - 24 bit I believe.

Post by feinstei December 28, 2012 (70 of 88)
I did something over my Christmas vacation that I haven't done in a few years and that is to drag out my early '70's vintage Decca Ring box set (the one that comes in the metal engraved case -- bought it at Laurie's Records in Evanston, IL in 1973 with an entire summer's worth of lawn mowing money).

Although I have both the Blu-Ray and the Esoteric SACD versions, I had the insane urge (and level of boredom from not being at work) to go through the hassles of cleaning the LP's on my Nitty-Gritty and fool with changing sides every 20 minutes in order to compare the LP's with the new stuff.

I guess that I like the colorations and distortions that are inherent in vinyl playback because it was a much more satisfying "emotional" experience to listen to the last two operas of the Ring on vinyl than the high-def versions. The "fullness" and "richness" of the sound from these vinyl records (yes, I know that these are phony "colorations") gave me a real "high" that I just don't get from the SACD/Blu-Ray, even though the hi-res versions are probably more faithful to the original masters.

I guess that listening to music has a psychological component to it, something that the records give me that the Blu-Ray/SACD doesn't. The mental picture of the drama as heard on the LP's was really something that I haven't experienced in many years of listening to the London/Decca Ring.

I wonder if any reviewers still consider the LP's to be superior to the high-res versions, or if my enjoyment of the LP's was simply "in my head".

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