Thread: SACD Detection

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Post by FullRangeMan February 2, 2010 (11 of 21)
Perigo said:

What do you mean with "sound good"?
My SCD-1 seems to work perfectly anytime.

''Good Sound'' is the regular performance quality the SCD-1 is capable of. I have to warmup my SCD-1 as I listen once in a month or so, but IF I listen every day the warmup time is under 1 hour.

Worth say a friend of mine had MarkLevinson player and preamp and the warm-up time is two days (48 hours) to sound good.

Post by jullepoika February 2, 2010 (12 of 21)
So to claim that, you (and your friend) have to have two identical players, one cold, one warm, then you compare. Yes?

Post by FullRangeMan February 2, 2010 (13 of 21)
jullepoika said:

So to claim that, you (and your friend) have to have two identical players, one cold, one warm, then you compare. Yes?

OH yes, this could be a radical test to find some thuth he already see happen in his room.
He inform me this, according his dealer and the manual recomendations, he sold the gear cause this feature bored him.

Post by sibelius2 February 2, 2010 (14 of 21)
On a hybrid SACD, the CD layer is, in fact, a physically different layer than the SACD layer. To read the CD layer on a hybrid disc, the player's laser passes right through the SACD layer to read the pits on the CD layer. To play the SACD layer, the player's laser is refocused onto the SACD layer.

It sounds like your player, with certain discs, is unable to find the SACD layer, so then it tries again to find the CD layer and plays that. Out of hundreds of SACDs I own, I've only once had a problem even close to this. I had a hybrid stereo/multi disc on which my player could find the CD layer and the 2-channel DSD area but not the multichannel area. I concluded it was a defective disc.

But defective discs are extremely rare; for one person to end up with several defectives is nearly impossible. It's possible that the troublesome discs aren't clean - at least, not as clean as you think they are. Same with the lens inside the player (and please forgive me for implying that you're not taking good care of your gear or software, but these are possibilities which need to be considered.)

My guess would be a fault with the player. There probably is some variation between discs - some may have a SACD layer easier for players to find than others. Your player could be having trouble finding SACD layers across the board, but it's only a few discs where it fails entirely.

If you've not had the player for long, see if you can exchange it for another or have it repaired under warranty.

Post by aristoteles February 2, 2010 (15 of 21)
grunter-pulpitt said:

Would I be right in thinking it is the central Identification Index that tells a player that the disc is SACD? I have found that my Sony SACD player reads SACDs in one of three ways

a) SACD or CD according to the player setting
b) always SACD regardless of the player setting
c) always CD regardless of setting

all discs purport to be hybrid. The player is set up to default to SACD, but discs in category c refuse to play as SACD, saying the disc is not hybrid. One might think the player is faulty but it is so consistent in not reading some discs as SACD that I wonder. Has anyone else had similar problems?

There is a couple of threads about this issue, see /showthread/32557/34275/y#34275
Many of the first gen Sony players seem to have a problem reading the TOC on hybrid discs.
You could try to replace the optical pick-up, but it doesn't always help .

Post by stvnharr February 2, 2010 (16 of 21)
grunter-pulpitt said:

Sorry, perhaps by saying 'reads' I confused people. I am not talking about the way the disc is read during playing of the music but how the disc is determined to be either an SACD or a CD at startup. All of the discs I am referring to are supposed to be hybrid SACDs on a variety of labels.

My player is normally set up so that if an SACD is played, it should play it as one. But what I find is that a few discs default to CD despite being SACDs.

Whilst that may suggest the player is faulty, it is consistent, in that the player always plays them as CDs, an attempt explicitly to play them as SACDs produces the message 'not hybrid'. The ones that it plays as SACDs it plays them as SACDs consistently, unless I alter the settings to read the CD layer, which it usually allows me to do.

You can tell what it will play them as since when reading the TOC of one it treats as an SACD you can hear it speed up before the indicator light comes on.

From what you have described, your player needs attention at the Sony Service Center nearest you. You have described a player that does not read sacd on the TOC of some hybrid discs. It's not a disc issue, but rather a player issue.
You may first like to try one of the lens cleaners, and see if that helps any. But I suspect that your player needs an optical replacement. Depending on the player, this may/may not be cost effective. Your option.

Post by DSD February 2, 2010 (17 of 21)
Mj any of those titles the first pressings of: Mike Oldfield: Tubular Bells , Audiophile Reference IV or A Celtic Spectacular: Cincinnati Pops/Kunzel ?

When I had the Sony DVD-S9000ES it took multiple loadings to get the SACD player to play the SACD layer of those three SACDs instead of the CD layer. However they played perfectly on every other brand of SACD player I tried, loading the SACD layer the first time. Later pressings are supposed to have easier to read TOCs.

In time of course other hybrid SACDs started to fail, requiring repair.

Post by Johnno February 3, 2010 (18 of 21)
grunter-pulpitt said:

No, I have tried playing the misbehaving SACDs as 2CH SACD and it makes no difference.

This is only a guess on my part, but there might be a flag in the disc's table of contents that tells the player whether the disc is a CD, or an SACD and in some of your discs someone has forgotten to set the flag correctly when the TOC is organised. That could account for the duplicate copies of your discs producing the same readout at start-up.

Another way of checking would be for you to specify the discs that are SACD but which read as CDs on your player and see if others here withe same discs agree with you.

Post by grunter-pulpitt February 4, 2010 (19 of 21)
I wondered if the SACD laser was failing, as I had one fail on a Sony CD player, but as I said it seems consistent, some discs now always play as SACD, some never do. The discs that I first noticed it on were two copies of the Naxos MA Charpentier SACD. And a new unplayed Channel SACD of Mozart Violin Sonatas which rather rules out dirty discs.

Since, unfortunately, most of my favourite labels such as Hyperion and Naxos seem to have discontinued SACDs I feel less need to indulge in a replacement player.

Post by sibelius2 February 4, 2010 (20 of 21)
grunter-pulpitt said:

Since, unfortunately, most of my favourite labels such as Hyperion and Naxos seem to have discontinued SACDs I feel less need to indulge in a replacement player.

It sounds like you're assuming that the problem will never get any worse. Just because your player's behavior seems consistent from day-to-day does not mean that in a year it will be unchanged. Your player should correctly play every SACD you put into it - that's what you paid for - and if it doesn't, you have the right to demand that the manufacturer fix the problem.

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