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Discussion: The Animals: Retrospective

Posts: 40
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Post by Stanbury August 10, 2010 (1 of 40)
clekaeljo's review of this SACD claims that the SACD tracks are a dsd conversion from the RBCD version. I think I understand how one could determine whether it is limited to the 44.1 kHz sampling rate, but I don't understand how the 16 bit limit can be deduced.

clekaeljo: how do you know?

Post by rammiepie August 10, 2010 (2 of 40)
Did you ever consider that like the Stones SACD remasters this album is no longer available in the SACD format and what you received at this late stage IS a DSD~remastered RBCD.....My copy is SACD and sounds wonderful as I purchased it a few years back. The DSD remastering displayed on the album is deceptive and I could see how some vendors would mistake it for an actual SACD. I'm sure if you tried hard enough, you can probably locate one but you have the option to return the copy you have to the vendor (or amazon) for a full refund if you feel you've been "duped."

Post by silversurfer6100 September 9, 2011 (3 of 40)
Bought this one today on NZ Trade Me for 24.-NZ Dollars(ca.28.- US Dollars)and the seller confirmed that when put in the player SACD shows up.
And it is NEW so I am sort of thrilled!
Hope it sounds good,though!

Post by zeus September 9, 2011 (4 of 40)
silversurfer6100 said:

Bought this one today on NZ Trade Me for 24.-NZ Dollars(ca.28.- US Dollars)and the seller confirmed that when put in the player SACD shows up.
And it is NEW so I am sort of thrilled!

Strictly speaking, not "new" any more!

Post by rammiepie September 10, 2011 (5 of 40)
zeus said:

Strictly speaking, not "new" any more!

Better safe than sorry provided the seller didn't get his grubby fingerprints on the disc.......

Post by MattMan657 September 11, 2011 (6 of 40)
I'm trying to get my hands on a copy of this too. I have the DSD converted to Redbook CD but to be honest I'm not a big fan of the remaster. Sounds clear but it kinda hurts your ears a little.

Post by Kutyatest September 13, 2011 (7 of 40)
MattMan657 said:

I'm trying to get my hands on a copy of this too. I have the DSD converted to Redbook CD but to be honest I'm not a big fan of the remaster. Sounds clear but it kinda hurts your ears a little.

I'm sure there'll be a copy available out there sometime. I managed to pick up my SACD of this album just over a month ago, from that very well known internet auction site. Thankfully mine was sold by a knowledgeable seller that knew exactly what it was - and was honest in the description, i.e. used but like new. It's a wonderful album - just a pity it's stereo-only. In my search for this album, which included the Herman's Hermits Retrospective SACD, I'd already scoured through most of the Amazon Marketplace sellers, in UK, Germany and USA (some of which are/were the same anyway), and sent e-mails asking for the seller to confirm which version they were selling. Only 1 replied with any decent information, confirming it was the SACD version. I ordered it, despite being highly sceptical, and true enough, the version that arrived was the DSD remastered CD version. I sent it back and got my refund.

Post by MattMan657 September 13, 2011 (8 of 40)
Yep, I know the aggravation. About a month ago I won an auction for one, seller confirmed it was the SACD, digipack and all. I get it in and it's a jewel case, I'm instantly furious. The seller apparently "ACCIDENTALLY" sold the SACD instead of the Redbook to Newbury Comics... gave me a full refund and said I could keep the DSD Redbook so he handled it accordingly but still... I was so disappointed.

Post by AmonRa September 14, 2011 (9 of 40)
Stanbury said:

clekaeljo's review of this SACD claims that the SACD tracks are a dsd conversion from the RBCD version. I think I understand how one could determine whether it is limited to the 44.1 kHz sampling rate, but I don't understand how the 16 bit limit can be deduced.

It can not. Analog tapes recorded at the sixties have noise floor/tape hiss at around -60 dBFS which means only 10 bits worth of dynamic range. Copying this to 16 or 24 bits keeps the 10 "paying bits" just fine, and the rest 6 or 14 bits are noise. Impossible to tell form the noise print if it has been 24 bits in some part of its life. For this reason it is idiocy to claim that old analog reissues would sound better in SACD than on a plain RBCD. But as long people are willing to pay more there will be this business, a new customer is born every minute...

A large part of new SACDs now are old, originally much less than RBCD quality turds polished to SACD, not new truly high resolution recordings, why?

I should start a business of selling SACD, or even better, SHM-SACD stickers for RBCD covers. Makes them sound better.

Post by rammiepie September 14, 2011 (10 of 40)
AmonRa said:

It can not. Analog tapes recorded at the sixties have noise floor/tape hiss at around -60 dBFS which means only 10 bits worth of dynamic range. Copying this to 16 or 24 bits keeps the 10 "paying bits" just fine, and the rest 6 or 14 bits are noise. Impossible to tell form the noise print if it has been 24 bits in some part of its life. For this reason it is idiocy to claim that old analog reissues would sound better in SACD than on a plain RBCD. But as long people are willing to pay more there will be this business, a new customer is born every minute...

A large part of new SACDs now are old, originally much less than RBCD quality turds polished to SACD, not new truly high resolution recordings, why?

I should start a business of selling SACD, or even better, SHM-SACD stickers for RBCD covers. Makes them sound better.

Ironically, when pressed to either spend $56+ for the 2011 remastered SHM~SACD of Joao Gilberto's 1973 analogue recording or purchasing the 2011 SHM~RBCD of the same title (and presumably from the exact same master tape) I opted for the latter ($24 brand new from an Amazon third party vendor).

Via my Meridian SooLoos, it sounded pretty astounding. I really wonder how much better the SHM~SACD would've sounded? $32+ (s/h from Japan) better??????????????

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