Thread: Will BluRay or HD DVD be the real Hi-rez format for music?

Posts: 49
Page: prev 1 2 3 4 5 next

Post by Cellophile March 23, 2005 (11 of 49)
Khom, good point, but by then you will just download the files onto your computer. Except you will have super bandwidth at your house, and the files will be large for high rez music, not like the mp3s we download now.

Or imagine going to an audio store with a portable hard drive, sitting at a terminal, and buying your high rez audio tracks and transferring them to your hard drive, for later placement on your computer/player. Fill her up!

My point about the BluRay deal is that by marketing to the mass market via the video capabilities, the format may be viable from an economic standpoint to support cheaper per unit production costs (mass production). Then if they want, audio only, or mostly audio only discs can be produced. The one drawback for SACD is no video or photos or extras. Now with BluRay, or HD DVD there will be room for uncompressed multichannel, stereo, etc., plus video, etc. I own many classical DVDs, but wish the sound was better than PCM 16/44. I wish they had put SACD into the specs for BluRay. Because they did not (The Perfect Vision, March 2005,p.32), AND Sony is spearheading BluRay, AND Sony has slowed SACD relaeses to a trickle, I believe that the next high rez format will be BluRay, or HD DVD. Why produce two different types of discs, when BluRay will be backward compatable with current DVD players, and for those with BluRay players will afford both high rez video and audio!

I suggest reading the article referenced in the above paragraph, as it gives a good overview. The Gen X and Y wants video with their audio. They grew up on MTV. I, a classical fan , could do without the video but want great audio. With the new format specs we can all have what we need.

Dual Disc is not a winning format IMHO. This thread is not about Dual Disc.

Post by zeus March 23, 2005 (12 of 49)
DrOctodivx said:

Well, I read almost every article that I see on hi-resolution audio but I often don't remember where I read something. However, I just did a quick search and pulled up this one:

http://silverlinerecords.com/HITS.html

I read it twice and didn't see any mention of dual-layer capability on the DVD side. This August 2004 announcement I think predates the "DVD Single Thin Layer Specification". Also, having DVD-A capability doesn't mean hi-res ... the more video etc you add, the less space you have for audio and the delivered sampling rate would have to drop accordingly. Other than Silverline, the backers of this format see "features" as the main attraction for the format. If it takes off, I wouldn't be surprised if they dropped DVD-A capability entirely to save a few pennies in licensing fees.

Post by DrOctodivx March 23, 2005 (13 of 49)
zeus said:

I read it twice and didn't see any mention of dual-layer capability on the DVD side. This August 2004 announcement I think predates the "DVD Single Thin Layer Specification". Also, having DVD-A capability doesn't mean hi-res ... the more video etc you add, the less space you have for audio and the delivered sampling rate would have to drop accordingly. Other than Silverline, the backers of this format see "features" as the main attraction for the format. If it takes off, I wouldn't be surprised if they dropped DVD-A capability entirely to save a few pennies on licensing fees.

I was referring to the statement:

"The largest being that the DVD side, after giving up most of its space for the 5.1 surround audio, only has some 20 minutes of video time left. There are new technologies on the horizon that might solve that problem, but they will become available after the launch of the current version."

I was assuming they meant somehow adding another layer which would work with current DVD players, though they could mean something else as well - though I have difficulty imaging what that would be that would not require new hardware. I am not going to quibble about whether DVD-A means hires or not - in pretty much any case it is higher than CD and most of Silverline is in 24/96 multichannel. The high percentage of initial DualDisc offerings in the USA included DVD-Audio, however since then Sony and others have added a significant # of release with just Dolby Digital and PCM which is very disappointing. To add to the frustration, it is pretty difficult online to determine if a disc contains DVD-A or not, so for the time being I am sticking to Silverline for DualDisc, for the most part. Though a number of the Sony releases do contain LPCM tracks with a slightly higher quality bit rate/depth than CDs contain - so they are still a step up from CD.

I agree with you that due to the "flexible" specifications concerning hi-res audio that many providers may drop the DVD-A which goes back to my original statement that the main weakness of DualDisc is the lack of a hi-res requirement.

Post by Sam March 23, 2005 (14 of 49)
DrOctodivx said:

Though a number of the Sony releases do contain LPCM tracks with a slightly higher quality bit rate/depth than CDs contain - so they are still a step up from CD.

I agree with you that due to the "flexible" specifications concerning hi-res audio that many providers may drop the DVD-A which goes back to my original statement that the main weakness of DualDisc is the lack of a hi-res requirement.

A poster on audioasylum.com reported that the Sony DualDiscs's peak at -6dB. In other words, they are 15-bit on the DVD side.

HiRez audio on DualDiscs is filler. The marketable product is video. It would make no sense to mandate that filler take priority over the product.

Post by DrOctodivx March 23, 2005 (15 of 49)
Sam said:

A poster on audioasylum.com reported that the Sony DualDiscs's peak at -6dB. In other words, they are 15-bit on the DVD side.

The LPCM tracks are a minimum 16 bits - just like CD. Whether the recording engineer is using the full 16 bits is a secondary question independent of the media. I would be surprised if the LPCM tracks were any less resolution than the PCM on the CD side of the same disc, that would not make any sense at all.

Post by raffells March 23, 2005 (16 of 49)
DrOctodivx said:

The LPCM tracks are a minimum 16 bits - just like CD. Whether the recording engineer is using the full 16 bits is a secondary question independent of the media. I would be surprised if the LPCM tracks were any less resolution than the PCM on the CD side of the same disc, that would not make any sense at all.

There IS a genuine reason for restricting dynamic levels/peaks in the DVD Film surround arena etc ....If you are not familiar with these reasons and are coming at it opinionated from a HiFi perspective,,then I can understand your comments and OPINIONS........Dont blame the recording engineer everytime though...he is only one cog in the wheel,,,,,Its easy enough to check bitrates physically using Wavelab 4 ...or later..rather than to theorize... However //////....... To me this thread has lost its way...Blue ray bears little or no resemblance to the quality of dualdisc......One will be HD video with Hi def sound of some sort....the other is a wanabee....and failing at that....wishfull thinking is another subject......Dave

Post by DrOctodivx March 23, 2005 (17 of 49)
raffells said:

There IS a genuine reason for restricting dynamic levels/peaks in the DVD Film surround arena etc ....If you are not familiar with these reasons and are coming at it opinionated from a HiFi perspective,,then I can understand your comments and OPINIONS

The LPCM tracks on a dualdisc that are mirroring the album tracks typically have no or minimal video - similar to DVD-A - so there is no reason to equalize them for the video or surround arena and it would be a mistake to do so. It is a different story, of course, if you are referring to the music video and documentaries that also come on the disc.

Post by mdt March 23, 2005 (18 of 49)
Cellophile said:

I was reading in a video mag an article by Robet Harley that Blu Ray will have specifications for high rez music in multichannel, yet the discs will allow for video as well, possibly stereo tracks, basically everything.

It would seem that this would be a great thing since you could get alot of content on the disc, satisfying the average listener (mass public, who must watch something when listening) as well as connesueirs.

I do believe the specificatio was for PCM High rez, like DVD-A.

Does anybody think one of these formats will supercede SACD and DVD-A?

People are adopting HDTV. Sooner or later they will get a BluRay or HD-DVD player, and then they can start buying movies with High rez sound, and music with videos, also with high rez sound. Why not?

I'll be buying one of these players once software becomes available and a high quality unit comes out.

BTW, I love SACD and wish they would use DSD for movie and music too.

Blue ray and similar will replace DVD-V, not SA-CD. I see it existing along with SA-CD, like DVD-V exists along with CD. This is only the consequent step forward to hires reproduction in the home for the video world,that has allready been taken in audio by going from CD to SA-CD (and DVD-A).

Post by Sam March 23, 2005 (19 of 49)
DrOctodivx said:

I would be surprised if the LPCM tracks were any less resolution than the PCM on the CD side of the same disc, that would not make any sense at all.

Well, that's what has been reported, by someone who ripped the tracks.

Perhaps it was necessary in order to level-match the PCM and Dolby Digital tracks?

Post by DrOctodivx March 23, 2005 (20 of 49)
Sam said:

Well, that's what has been reported, by someone who ripped the tracks.

Perhaps it was necessary in order to level-match the PCM and Dolby Digital tracks?

That is possible, which would again make it the recording engineer' (or his superior') decision, not a technical limitation of DualDisc.

Are you sure he ripped the LPCM tracks instead of the Dolby Digital ? The LPCM tracks on my David Bowie Reality DualDisc sounds significantly superior to the Dolby Digital (despite my overall preference to multichannel, I much preferred the Stereo LPCM tracks).

Page: prev 1 2 3 4 5 next

Closed