Thread: BluRay Audio ????

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Post by rammiepie March 28, 2011 (121 of 167)
DSD said:

"no noticeable sonic difference" transports me back to the Julian Hirsch/Stereo Review days when he "proved" all amplifiers sound the same, all CD players sound the same and all cables sound the same.

Right on, Teresa. I had that thought in mind when I posted above. Which is why I skipped over Julian's reviews of amps in bygone days and still skip over Tellig's BS in Stereophile.

But I wish that there was an understanding that not all pre-pros sound the same especially in regards to processing HDMI.

And I'm really proud of you for posting that you were verily impressed with the Playback Design MPS~5 and acknowledged that it was a statement piece because it seems to be the norm on this website that if you can't afford it, that it must be junk!

Post by domic March 29, 2011 (122 of 167)
Fitzcaraldo215 said:

Yes, they are cheaper, but, are they they equal of the Oppos sonically? Certainly not to the 95 for analog output, and also not to the 93/95 on upscaled picture quality with DVD's.

The SONYs have several drawbacks (basicly handling / user interface) none of your old CD players had. I have one of those and I am getting regularly upset about it. Sound is perfect when connected via HDMI (there is no analog MCH output). Basically, they do not display the track number on device display while playing SACD, they do not allow direct track number selection via remote. And, you have to select HD video output (!) in order to get DSD multichannel via HDMI (else only two channels). This statement applies to any BD-P x70, I do not know anything about the current x80 series. Any experiences?

Post by Fitzcaraldo215 March 29, 2011 (123 of 167)
DSD said:

"no noticeable sonic difference" transports me back to the Julian Hirsch/Stereo Review days when he "proved" all amplifiers sound the same, all CD players sound the same and all cables sound the same.

Julian Hirsh never reviewed a cable in his life. "No noticeable difference" was the consensus of several listeners in several sessions. And, unlike Hirsh or any other reviewers, we are not beholden to advertisers, so we can tell it exactly like we heard it. Perhaps you would like to undertake your own comparative test of HDMI cables. We are all just dying to hear what you think.

FWIW, I have heard the differences between analog cables, though they have generally been rather small among quality cables. I do not use junk cables and I audition carefully before buying. I have rejected a fair number of analog cables in my liftetime as an audiophile. But, the sorts of differences you are used to in the analog domain do not appear to be prevalent or even existent in the digital domain, at least not among high speed rated HDMI cables over short distances. But, I am certainly willing to consider auditioning something that has distinguished itself in objective, independent comparative listening by someone else.

Post by DSD March 29, 2011 (124 of 167)
Fitzcaraldo215 I am not a Julian Hirsh or Stereo Review fan but I did subscribe for a while and I remember the issue in which they exposed the "lie" about cables and "claimed" they all sounded the same, that was what caused me to cancel my subscription! So yes Julian Hirsh labs was involved in that awful article as he was in the all amps and all CD players sound the same.

I have no interest in HDMI since I read that uncompressed formats, such as Stereo-only SACDs and 24/96 DVDs have too much jitter. I am sticking with stereo analog even though it requires 5 cables (3 for component video and 2 for audio).

Post by Fitzcaraldo215 March 29, 2011 (125 of 167)
rammiepie said:

But I wish that there was an understanding that not all pre-pros sound the same especially in regards to processing HDMI.

And I'm really proud of you for posting that you were verily impressed with the Playback Design MPS~5 and acknowledged that it was a statement piece because it seems to be the norm on this website that if you can't afford it, that it must be junk!

I thought we were talking about cables. Do prepros all sound the same with or without HDMI? Of course not. Who said otherwise. That's why some of our cable tests were repeated on Integras and Anthem D2V's. Same results as to cables.

Did you, yourself, not tell us the Silver Serpent HDMI was indistinguishable from the PPC? What other cable have you heard that distinguishes itself? Why have you not told us about it?

Playback Designs? Have you actually heard it a-b'ed with what you have got? I didn't think so. So, it's alleged superiority is just mythical, a figment of your fertile imagination. And, what are you going to do for Mch if you go that route?

Personally, I do not want an analog-out player. That would involve too many radical changes to my whole Mch system architecture. It's not just plug 'n play. My prepro is just not competitive for analog input, as I have freely and openly conceded at all times. So, I do not use it that way. It is a totally different matter for digital inputs.

There would be vitally important give ups via the analog route, at least to me: speaker distance correction, digital bass management, room EQ, etc. I have heard the EMM Meitner, which is arguably the best out there. I do not think the very small + delta in some areas of performance, outweighs the considerable negatives in others. And, I absolutely cannot do equidistant speaker placement, which is all a Meitner or, I suspect, a Mch Playback Designs, if it ever exists, could do. It is just not physically possible for me. And, then, finally, there is the cost.

Say, what ever happened to the room EQ you were going to do with your Meridian? I think you will find that works best by far with digital inputs to your prepro. If you weigh the pros and cons of a Playback Designs, even if Mch were available, I do not see you writing a check for it either. Wanna bet? I didn't think so. So, why keep hyping it?

Post by Fitzcaraldo215 March 29, 2011 (126 of 167)
rammiepie said:

So that entire "Fitzcarraldo Picks a Winner" was all for naught! Well, you can't prove it by me because I have noticed a giant leap forward especially as applied to 3D Plasma replication....absolutely no ghosting which cannot be said for the previous cabling.

Invariably, to each his/her own!

The Dark Ages are upon us once again.

If you go back and reread that thread, you will find that my opinion now is no different from my opinion then.

Actually, we, my friends who shared the experience and I, but not you, are now in the Age of Enlightenment. We discovered, as I reported in that thread, that differences between high speed-rated HDMI cables at short distances are sonically insignificant, at least so far, and in spite of cost issues and unfounded prior beliefs to the contrary. It seems you have reverted to your superstitious beliefs without evidence.

Post by rammiepie March 29, 2011 (127 of 167)
Fitz, I thought the "pissing contests" were behind us.....but apparently, not.

I have not had my room EQ done because my Meridian rep has undergone surgery but utilizing my amazing (but not in your mind's eye) Shakti holograms I have achieved incredible sound from the 861 V.6 sans room correction.

And how can we compare HDMI cables when we neglect the thingamajig it's plugged into.......in my case the 621 HDMI interface which is SO MUCH MORE than a common "switcher."

And, sadly, my next purchase won't be the Playback Design but rather a JVC DLAX9 3D Projector....I already have 6 SACD compliant players in my already overcrowded arsenal and as I mentioned before, am having a renewed love affair with the Meridian 800 DVD~Audio player with its state of the art replication.
It has to be heard to be believed and it's not utilizing HDMI but rather three Meridian coax cables.....arguably, the very BEST sound in my system.......and btw, is the same price as the Ayre Universal Player for 10K! (but No longer being manufactured)

And let's stop being hypocritical: Wasn't it you who stated that the OPPO for RBCD playback sounds best via coaxial digital and let's also be real (once again): The reason you'll NEVER go back to analogue is because your pre~amp has extremely lackluster analogue circuits.

If you're going to argue the differences between HDMI and all other interconnects then tell the whole story and stop pussyfooting around the (gulp!) TRUTH! B U S T E D ! Pour yourself a cocktail and sulk!

Post by Fitzcaraldo215 March 29, 2011 (128 of 167)
rammiepie said:

Fitz, I thought the "pissing contests" were behind us.....but apparently, not.

I have not had my room EQ done

And how can we compare HDMI cables when we neglect the thingamajig it's plugged into

621 HDMI interface which is SO MUCH MORE than a common "switcher."

And, sadly, my next purchase won't be the Playback Design

And let's stop being hypocritical: Wasn't it you who stated that the OPPO for RBCD playback sounds best via coaxial digital and let's also be real (once again): The reason you'll NEVER go back to analogue is because your pre~amp has extremely lackluster analogue circuits.

Pour yourself a cocktail and sulk!

Oh, there will be plenty more pissing contests if truth and accuracy, or even consistency with your own prior ststements are to be turned on their heads by you or anyone. So, that's entirely up to you, my friend.

I look forward to your experience with Meridian's EQ.

We can indeed compare HDMI cables on any device, by simply switching them and observing the results. The question is, "what is the effect of different cables in MY system". Why worry about effects on other devices you do not own?

I don't understand what you are saying about the 621. Are you saying it's so great you can hear big differences in high speed rated cables? If so, I do not think that is a measure of greatness. It may be a weakness.

Darn, I thought I could collect some easy money on a bet about the Playback. Why do you continue to hype that thing? You know it does not do what you need.

Yes, I do think the Oppo, and many other players sound their best on RBCD via coax rather than HDMI. Check out Doug Blackburn's review of the Arcam Blu-Ray/CD player in the current Widescreen Review. He agrees with me that HDMI is not the optimum way to transmit uncompressed PCM, like RBCD. But, that has little to do with how they will sound with hi rez Mch via HDMI, especially not bitstreamed hi rez Mch from SACD or Blu-ray. Bitstreaming compressed codecs, including DSD is the best way to transmit via HDMI. Unless I am mistaken, your Meridian setup cannot handle bitstreamed HDMI. It's all got to be LPCM at 96K or less. So, your HDMI setup may be more susceptible to jitter, except that Bob Stuart has incorporated very good jitter suppression circuitry into it. Still, which is more effective: bitstreaming or Bob's jitter suppression? We may never know.

By the way, your MLP DVD-A's use compressed data transmission like bitstreamed HDMI. That may be one reason they sound so good to you. As for klugey triple coax setups, yeah enjoy that. That's going to vanquish all and become the industry standard real, real soon.

No hypocrisy here. What part of "I cannot have equidistant speakers" do you not understand? It is a simple physical reality. Come down to Philly and you can see for yourself. So, I must have DSP for distance correction. DSP's in players, unlike the EMM which has none, are stripped down and less capable than those in processors. So, I want a digital prepro. And, if I have a digital prepro, tell me one good reason why analog input to it would be superior in any conceivable way to digital input. I don't care which digital prepro it is. Does your Meridian sound better via analog than hi rez digital? I seriously doubt that it it is capable of doing so. My local Meridian dealer agrees with that, by the way.

It's you who needs the cocktail, my friend. I am not sulking at all. My sound is just beyond my wildest dreams of even 5 years ago. I have never enjoyed it more than I do now. You need to chill out and stop making baseless accusations, otherwise you will have started another pissing contest. Have you gone off your meds? Stoppped seeing your therapist? Significant other not giving you sex? It does seem that after a period of relative sanity, you are into bizarro world again. You just do not seem to be in touch with reality, old buddy.

Post by rammiepie March 29, 2011 (129 of 167)
Why don't you borrow your local dealer's Meridian set~up for a weekend, if he will part with it and then we can have this discussion at a later date.

This discussion has become rather trying and seems to based in fantasy rather than fact!

One has to "live" with a system to enjoy its complexities and even dealers who sell the merchandise are not at task to really discuss it at any length.

My former Meridian dealer was a hack, is out of business, owed money to every vendor he ever dealt with and never set up my system correctly to begin with. It was with careful experimentation and a wonderful new Meridian rep (not dealer) to the rescue who helped me uncover the dynamics of my system.

As for your cable debates: Let's just say that HDMI may become a new standard for audio/video because of its simplistic approach but most audiophiles still prefer analogue and the VERY BEST SACD Players, bar none, still operate in the analogue domain.

Your basic OPPO BDP~83 may be a superb BD player but you heard it here, it's a TOY+ compared to what's out there so you and your so~called "audiophile" friends {mere schoolboys in disguise} can take their VERY questionable credentials and .....................

And as for your concert hall realism with OPPO and ONKYO, are we talking Tammany Hall, here?

+The SONY 5400ES via HDMI on the Meridian 621/861V.6 blows away the OPPO in MCH
+The Marantz SA 112s via analogue blows away the Sony and Oppo in 2 channel playback
+The Meridian 800 via 3 coax cables into the Meridian DECIMATES the OPPO in DVD~A playback AND thru a very pricey Transparent SVHS cable looks better when playing standard DVD than the OPPO does upsampled via HDMI.

Fitzcarraldo, it's time to take YOUR meds or, better yet, book a vacation on Mark Knopfler's Sailing To Philadelphia Fantasy Cruise.

Post by Disbeliever March 30, 2011 (130 of 167)
rammiepie said:




?

+The SONY 5400ES via HDMI on the Meridian 621/861V.6 blows away the OPPO in MCH
+The Marantz SA 112s via analogue blows away the Sony and Oppo in 2 channel playback
+The Meridian 800 via 3 coax cables into the Meridian DECIMATES the OPPO in DVD~A playback AND thru a very pricey Transparent SVHS cable looks better when playing standard DVD than the OPPO does upsampled via HDMI.

Fitzcarraldo, it's time to take YOUR meds or, better yet, book a vacation on Mark Knopfler's Sailing To Philadelphia Fantasy Cruise.

There is absolutely no way that the 4 Star Marantz SA-112S via analogue blows away the Sony XA5400ES in 2 channel playback What Hi-Fi ? review " Low freqencies lack ultimate definition & the relatively vague entry into & exit from bass notes can cause tempos to plod- a little, low end stuff could be more textured, too." I could not have said it better myself as this is exactly as I found the much more expensive obese Marantz SA7-S1 from which the SA-11S is mainly derived.

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