Thread: SACD Headphone Listening

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Post by JohnFerrier March 6, 2011 (81 of 106)
Fugue said:

On an unrelated note, to those of you who own or have auditioned Sennheiser HD 800s, how well do they block out ambient sound?

"Isolation Measurement
What it means: This is a measure of a headphone's ability to isolate the listener from external ambient noise. If there is no attenuation the line will be flat. If the headphone attenuates outside sound, the graphed data will begin to get lower, which represents a reduction of sound level at those frequencies.

How we measure: In this case we measure the Head Acoustics response to pink noise generated by a speaker mounted about one meter from the head. Then we simply put the headphones on the head and measure the spectrum of sound the head 'hears'. We then calculate the difference between the two measurements to calculate how much noise attenuation the headphones are providing over the entire audible frequency range."

Graphs available here:
http://www.headphone.com/learning-center/build-a-graph.php

Looks like 0 dB (no) attenuation 20 to 1k Hz. (I happen to use the HD650 so included it for comparison.)

Post by Ernani71 May 20, 2011 (82 of 106)
After months of listening to the Lehmann Black Cube Linear, I got out an old (heavy) RCA AV digital surround receiver that I hadn't used in years. I'm getting more accuracy from the BCL, but the sound of my Sennheiser HD650 headphones is fuller and more engaging plugged into the receiver. I've totally retired the BCL.

Right now, I'm doubting the claim that a headphone amp is even necessary. I was wondering whether Zeus was getting better sound on his headphones from the Lehmann than from his other gear, but then I noticed that neither the Marantz SA-11S2 nor the Musical Fidelity A300 seems to have a headphone jack. I would say if you have a good receiver that has a good headphone jack, don't bother with a headphone amp. Maybe the HD650 just needs a better headphone amp than the Lehmann.

What's a better headphone amp than the Lehmann, or a good receiver with a nice headphone jack?

Post by Ernani71 May 20, 2011 (83 of 106)
Arnaldo said:


I have now two Ultrasone S-Logic headphones, the Edition 8 Limited and the Edition 10, the former a closed back and the latter an open-back. And all I can say is that through either one, the difference between the Luxman and the SPL is not just discernible, actually, it's rather startling...

From the Ultrasone website: "You are still looking for the perfect pair of headphones? What is a perfect pair of headphones? The perfect pair of headphones simply has to fulfill your dreams." They sound pretty modest, don't they? But they look like good headphones.

Post by Ernani71 May 21, 2011 (84 of 106)
Arnaldo said:

Besides a Luxman P-200 amp, I own a SPL Phonitor, which uses crossfeed and phase effects to emulate stereo speakers, but without EQ or additional D/A/D conversions. It's also a superb balanced headphone amplifier in direct mode (http://spl.info/hardware/kopfhoererverstaerker/phonitor/kurzinfo.html).

I have now two Ultrasone S-Logic headphones, the Edition 8 Limited and the Edition 10, the former a closed back and the latter an open-back. And all I can say is that through either one, the difference between the Luxman and the SPL is not just discernible, actually, it's rather startling.

Arnaldo, I'm definitely changing gear. Which amp to do you prefer, the Luxman or the SPL Phonitor? The latter looks like one heavy-duty, top-notch amp. Can you compare/contrast them?

Basically, I'm looking for an amp with the natural tonal balance of the Lehmann but the power of a good stereo reciever that will give me a sense of a full orchestra playing at full throttle, which the Lehmann has not been able to deliver.

Would you consider the Phonitor + Ultrasone Edition 10 a great combination? The Ultrasone 10 is almost twice the price of the Sennheiser 800. Would you really say the Ultrasone 10 is that much better? Is there a reason you chose it over the 800? And finally, how would you compare the 10 to the closed-back 8? Ultrasone also offers the pro 2900 and hifi 2400, both open-back.

Post by big sur May 21, 2011 (85 of 106)
Arnaldo said:

"..same goes for the not subtle improvements brought by the VSE Terra Firma Lite balanced upgrade over the sound of stock Sony SCD-XA5400ES SACD player"

Hi Arnaldo. My thinking: The Modwright mod gets one into tubes/tube rolling $$$, extra power cord, heat, more room for external power supply, etc. - and that's not where I think I'd want to go for my upgrade path. I've had tubes in previous systems, but now have downsized and keep everything SS for convenience and cost savings. Have you spent any time listening to the XA5400ES with VSE Terra Firma Lite connected with unbalanced interconnects in a two-channel system (not to imply I don't like multi-channel, I do but haven't the gear now to go multi-channel)? A mid range Esoteric in my system (such as the X-03SE even used about $5K) would be grand, but don't foresee having that many discretionary audio dollars. If nothing else the stock XA5400ES is more than decent enough. That's how a person of modest means rationalizes anyway.(c:

Post by DSD May 21, 2011 (86 of 106)
Arnaldo said:

...Maybe Teresa, who has been very happy with a similar upgrade on her Yamaha DVD-S1700, could shed some light on the issue...

Arnaldo I only got the Terra Firma Lite clock mod which as you know I compared to my unmodded DVD-S1800. In stock form the 1800 sounds slightly better than the 1700 but modded the 1700 greatly surpassed the sonics of the 1800 or for than matter any other SACD player I've ever owned even some expensive ones.

If your op-amps were replaced with discrete components then this is supposed to smooth out the high frequencies a lot. Someday I would like to upgrade my analog section as well, perhaps replacing the op-amps with a tube output.

Post by Disbeliever May 22, 2011 (87 of 106)
DSD said:

Arnaldo I only got the Terra Firma Lite clock mod which as you know I compared to my unmodded DVD-S1800. In stock form the 1800 sounds slightly better than the 1700 but modded the 1700 greatly surpassed the sonics of the 1800 or for than matter any other SACD player I've ever owned even some expensive ones.

If your op-amps were replaced with discrete components then this is supposed to smooth out the high frequencies a lot. Someday I would like to upgrade my analog section as well, perhaps replacing the op-amps with a tube output.

Why is it not possible to obtain jitter figures for the Terra Firma Lite clock ? stock XA5400ES already has one of the lowest tested & published figure for digital jitter from any clock, CD 121 psec SACD 34 psec ( far less than the expensive Esoterics) IMO via HDMI the Terra Firma Lite clock would be a total waste of money like the Audiocon clock ,and probably the same via coax balanced or unbalanced.

Post by Hitters May 25, 2011 (88 of 106)
Ernani71 said:

Right now, I'm doubting the claim that a headphone amp is even necessary.
What's a better headphone amp than the Lehmann, or a good receiver with a nice headphone jack?

I got curious about this issue and tried to listen to a remarkable recording of classical chamber music on SACD via the "nice headphone jack" of a Yamaha receiver. The headphones were AKG 701s. The result was even worse than I had imagined. The sound was so poor it was even funny! I immediately returned to my Musical Fidelity headphone amp and everything sounded wonderful, as usually does. I wish receivers provided excellent sound via their headphone jack, but being not the case, I ended-up buying a headphone amp many years ago.

Post by Ernani71 May 29, 2011 (89 of 106)
One of your headphones is closed back, the other open. My assumption is that open-back phones are better. My presumption is that they generally offer a wider, deeper soundstage. Is this true?

Post by Kal Rubinson May 29, 2011 (90 of 106)
Ernani71 said:

One of your headphones is closed back, the other open. My assumption is that open-back phones are better. My presumption is that they generally offer a wider, deeper soundstage. Is this true?

Why would they?

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