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Discussion: Gil Evans: Out Of The Cool

Posts: 12
Page: 1 2 next

Post by Stanbury July 30, 2011 (1 of 12)
This recording from 1961 is widely regarded as an important classic in jazz. Far be it from me to attempt any commentary here!

However, the printed insert in the SACD raises some questions in my mind about the recording technique. There is a diagram showing the positions of the 15 musicians and the 12 microphones. I believe that in 1961 the tape recorders were only two-track models, so the 12 microphone feeds must have been mixed down to two channels during the actual recording. Presumably the mixing consoles in 1961 allowed the individual mics to be panned (in volume) between the two channels. But were they able (in 1961) to insert delays for proper spatial imaging?

Post by Claude July 30, 2011 (2 of 12)
Stanbury said:

I believe that in 1961 the tape recorders were only two-track models, so the 12 microphone feeds must have been mixed down to two channels during the actual recording.

That may be true for this recording, but other recordings from the same era, such as Miles Davis "Kind of blue" (1959) or Dave Brubeck "Time out" (same year) were recorded to three tracks, and SACD made it possible to release these three tracks on the multi-channel layer without a mix-down to stereo.

Post by Stanbury July 30, 2011 (3 of 12)
Yes. Now that I think of it, many of the Mercurys and Living Stereos from the same era were also three-track.

Post by rammiepie July 30, 2011 (4 of 12)
The upcoming AP Verve SACD of Oscar Peterson's "We Get Requests" will be released for the first time in three~channel. The album was originally recorded in 1964. The previous Japanese SACD was stereo, only and this SACD will also be mastered by Sterling Sound.

I do wonder, also, if three channel masters exist for other Impulse/Verve Recordings from that period?

And according to AP, this is one stunning remaster supposedly obliterating the SQ of previous releases of this landmark album.

BTW, I have the remastered RBCD and newly remastered SACD of "Out of the Cool" and the latter certainly betters the RBCD by a significant margin but one still wonders whether a "lost" three channel master exists based on Stanbury's astute observation of the multi~miking technique employed to record this session?

Post by rammiepie July 30, 2011 (5 of 12)
And way off topic (sorry) in looking over some of the SQ and QS and Quad 8 recordings, did anyone realize that John Lennon's Imagine and Walls and Bridges were previously released in Quad with John Lennon himself doing the mixing for Imagine and almost all of Santana's early recordings (including Caravanserai and Lotus (3 disc set) all have Quad masters.

Really wish MoFi would've at least considered releasing Caravanserai in 4.0 instead of the upcoming stereo SACD edition (especially considering the Japanese stereo SACD still sounds fine).

There are probably over 1000 QUAD masters (worldwide) begging for a hi~rez resurrection, some of them classics and even Impulse has some Quad masters of Coltrane (John and Alice), Gato Babieri, Charley Haden and Pharoah Sanders, etc. in the vaults rotting away.

Perhaps AP could resurrect some of these for future release in multichannel SACD??????????????

And Using the Grimm Audio Converter.....can you IMAGINE??????

Post by Claude July 31, 2011 (6 of 12)
rammiepie said:

I do wonder, also, if three channel masters exist for other Impulse/Verve Recordings from that period?

And according to AP, this is one stunning remaster supposedly obliterating the SQ of previous releases of this landmark album.

BTW, I have the remastered RBCD and newly remastered SACD of "Out of the Cool" and the latter certainly betters the RBCD by a significant margin but one still wonders whether a "lost" three channel master exists based on Stanbury's astute observation of the multi~miking technique employed to record this session?

I don't think Rudy Van Gelder ever recorded to three tracks.

Post by Stanbury August 1, 2011 (7 of 12)
The printed material on this SACD gives no indication of the identity of the recording engineer. How do you know it was Rudy van Gelder?

Post by Claude August 1, 2011 (8 of 12)
The AP SACDs omit a lot of essential information, such as recording dates and locations, which is present in the regular CD reissue.

"Recorded at the Van Gelder Studio, Englewood Cliffs, New Jersey on November 18 & 30 and December 10 & 15, 1960."

"A groundbreaking jazz recording by the longtime Miles Davis collaborator Gil Evans highlights the latter's supreme and influential skills as a jazz orchestrator. This album is a brilliant example of Evans' ability to make a large orchestra sound like a smaller jazz combo using orchestrations that infuse the larger unit with the immediacy and spontaneity of the smaller. Out Of The Cool features some of Evan's finest compositions, including the famous "La Nevada" as well as a magnificent performance of George Russell's "Sratosphunk." Soloists include Budd Johnson (tenor), Johnny Coles (trumpet), Ray Crawford (guitar), Elvin Jones (drums), Ron Carter (bass) and Jimmy Knepper (trombone). The ensemble is superbly recorded by the legendary Rudy Van Gelder. A must-have for all lovers of jazz.

Originally released in 1960.

Mastered by Kevin Gray."

(no links, because the info comes from shopping sites)

Post by Stanbury August 1, 2011 (9 of 12)
Thanks, Claude. This is great information.

Post by SteelyTom November 13, 2014 (10 of 12)
This link may be of interest to anyone contemplating buying the SACD, or other Analogue Productions Impulse reissues for that matter:

http://www.analogplanet.com/content/gil-evanss-out-cool-crapper

It's quite possible the master tape for this session was destroyed in the Universal fire, though I wouldn't expect APO to be candid about it. (By way of footnote for any Hoffmanites who may be present, this is a matter not to be discussed on the Hoffman board, as Steve himself confirmed a day or two ago.)

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