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Discussion: Donald Fagen: The Nightfly

Posts: 13
Page: 1 2 next

Post by Nagraboy September 1, 2011 (1 of 13)
This album was recorded digitally in the early 80s at 16 bit 48kHz. As such it's only really suitable for a CD release. Anything else will just be an upsampled file. There is no extra data for a hi-rez release to uncover. I have the DVD-A multichannel version and I think this new SACD version will simply be a DSD conversion of those files. With my dCS P8i player that upsamples RBCD to DSD before conversion, I'm probably better off just playing the existing CD version! Any thoughts...?

Post by Nagraboy September 1, 2011 (2 of 13)
In fact, I may sell my DVD-A version and buy this new SACD version. With the inflated prices of old DVD-A discs and the inflated prices of reissues like The Nightfly, I'll probably break even!

Post by Claude September 1, 2011 (3 of 13)
Nagraboy said:

This album was recorded digitally in the early 80s at 16 bit 48kHz. As such it's only really suitable for a CD release.

Actually, I have a first LP pressing which sounds much better than the first CD release (Target CD). Warmer and more natural. You are right about the format limitations, but mastering quality is also important, even with digital recordings.

Post by rammiepie September 1, 2011 (4 of 13)
Nagraboy said:

This album was recorded digitally in the early 80s at 16 bit 48kHz. As such it's only really suitable for a CD release. Anything else will just be an upsampled file. There is no extra data for a hi-rez release to uncover. I have the DVD-A multichannel version and I think this new SACD version will simply be a DSD conversion of those files. With my dCS P8i player that upsamples RBCD to DSD before conversion, I'm probably better off just playing the existing CD version! Any thoughts...?

Nagraboy, via my Meridian 800 DVD~A player, the DVD~A sounds simply amazing. Keep it and also buy the Warners/Japan 5.1 SACD when you can find a good price on it.

It may be only 16/48....but it's a great sounding album......nonetheless.

How do you like the dCs P8i????????????

Post by Hitters September 1, 2011 (5 of 13)
Nagraboy said:

This album was recorded digitally in the early 80s at 16 bit 48kHz. As such it's only really suitable for a CD release. Anything else will just be an upsampled file. There is no extra data for a hi-rez release to uncover. I have the DVD-A multichannel version and I think this new SACD version will simply be a DSD conversion of those files. With my dCS P8i player that upsamples RBCD to DSD before conversion, I'm probably better off just playing the existing CD version! Any thoughts...?

I find the RBCD mastering quite poor for Donald Fagen's standard. Gaucho, for example, is a wonder! The Nightfly sounds thin and really lacking bass presence. The treble is too important. To get a decent playing balance I have to boost the bass. I blame the mastering. I do not think Donald made a mistake during the recording as he is quite a fanatic of perfect sound.

Post by Johnno September 2, 2011 (6 of 13)
I played my CD (WARNER BROS) of it the other day through my Marantz CD-7 and was amazed at how good it sounded. When I played it previously, I had been disappointed with it. I've since built a couple of new class-A amplifiers and must assume they're the reason for the improved sound.

Post by Nagraboy September 5, 2011 (7 of 13)
rammiepie said:

Nagraboy, via my Meridian 800 DVD~A player, the DVD~A sounds simply amazing. Keep it and also buy the Warners/Japan 5.1 SACD when you can find a good price on it.

It may be only 16/48....but it's a great sounding album......nonetheless.

How do you like the dCs P8i????????????

Your Meridian truly is a miracle of modern science rammie!

The dCS? For a laugh, I output the DVD-A version of The Nightfly from my Cambridge Audio 650BD universal player's coaxial output into the digital input on the dCS P8i, which makes use of the unique dCS RingDAC technology and it was fractionally harsher and flatter-sounding than the RBCD version played from the P8i's disc tray throug its' own internal DAC. But, then again, the dCS can be set to upsample RBCD to DSD before D/A conversion. I love my toys!

Admittedly, I'll probably still buy the new SACD version to hear how the mastering can affect the sound on such a familiar album.

Post by rammiepie September 5, 2011 (8 of 13)
Nagraboy, seriously, all the Donald Fagen DVD~A 5.1s sound superb, both in mch and stereo so take the plunge with the SACD.

I have posted this before but when the Meridian 800 was first reviewed in Stereophile Magazine, the reviewer (his name escapes me) said this: "The Meridian 800 plays RBCDs better than the $28,000 Accuphase SACD player plays SACDs."

At the time, I was NOT into SACD and really didn't think much of the review but I did feel compassion for anyone who spent $28,000 on the Accuphase SACD player as the 800 cost nowhere near that.

BTW, when you see Gerald (DB) at the Audio convention, say Hi for me and be sure you wear a pink carnation in your H.A.T. so he knows it's you and bring a faberge egg as a peace offering. Just joking, of course!

Post by telemak December 18, 2012 (9 of 13)
If you wish to appreciate the worst older analog to digital converters, try this disc, one of the first on complete DDD in the eighties.

You can really hear directly from original digital multitrack mastertapes the lack of energy and natural of every kind of sound treated by those jurassic A/D converters.

Except the multichannel mix, this recording doesn't append some good news to my ears and to Donald Fagen.

You should always avoid the first DDD recordings because analog to digital treatments were not well done at this time (like Karajan for example).

Try instead older analog records to DSD/SACD or newest high definition or DSD recordings.

Post by Nagraboy December 18, 2012 (10 of 13)
telemak said:

You should always avoid the first DDD recordings because analog to digital treatments were not well done at this time (like Karajan for example).

Try instead older analog records to DSD/SACD or newest high definition or DSD recordings.

That's going a bit too far IMO. There are some great performances recorded in early digital that are worth hearing. With Classical music you can always try different versions if you can't stand early digital but The Nightfly cannot be re-recorded by another band in the latest DSD technology - it is what it is and it's the only version we have. Besides, it's a good-sounding album in its own unusual way.

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