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Discussion: Mahler: Symphony No. 5 - RPO/Shipway

Posts: 22
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Post by akiralx August 7, 2005 (1 of 22)
Never heard this, but I've read some glowing reviews when it was on the Tring label. At the low price it could be a real multi-channel bargain...

Post by nickc August 22, 2005 (2 of 22)
akiralx said:

Never heard this, but I've read some glowing reviews when it was on the Tring label. At the low price it could be a real multi-channel bargain...

Hi John
welcome - and congratulations on an excellent review!
We may very well be in a Spengleresque decline but if we keep buying we'll all have enough to last us for a while I hope!
Cheers
Nick

Post by Castor August 22, 2005 (3 of 22)
akiralx said:

Never heard this, but I've read some glowing reviews when it was on the Tring label. At the low price it could be a real multi-channel bargain...

I had this on RBCD. Splendid playing by the RPO (particularly the brass) and exciting performance of the outer movements. Good Watford sound. The adagietto lets it down, just too slow and lugubrious (suffers from 'Death in Venice' syndrome). I may try the SACD but already have Nott (Tudor) and Haenchen(Pentatone).

Post by nickc August 22, 2005 (4 of 22)
Castor said:

I had this on RBCD. Splendid playing by the RPO (particularly the brass) and exciting performance of the outer movements. Good Watford sound. The adagietto lets it down, just too slow and lugubrious (suffers from 'Death in Venice' syndrome). I may try the SACD but already have Nott (Tudor) and Haenchen(Pentatone).

Hi Castor
I read somewhere that the Tudor/Nott performance literally puts you on the stage - is that how it sounds too you (do you listen in MC)?
Im also looking at buying the Pentatone - I've heard we are a fair way back in the hall - if you can remember the sound of either I'd love a heads up!
Cheers
Nick

Post by prometheus August 23, 2005 (5 of 22)
Castor said:

I had this on RBCD. Splendid playing by the RPO (particularly the brass) and exciting performance of the outer movements. Good Watford sound. The adagietto lets it down, just too slow and lugubrious (suffers from 'Death in Venice' syndrome). I may try the SACD but already have Nott (Tudor) and Haenchen(Pentatone).

"'Death in Venice' syndrome".....like it!!! Bogarde or Bernstein?!? I seem to remember the soundtrack utilised Kubelik--not usually prone to much in the way of indulgent excess--but I have neither heard that cycle nor seen the movie in many a long year.

Take care or we'll have all the political correctness types accusing us of belittling the Lord Britten!

The amazing thing about those horns is that I can think of no other orchestra which has felt able to use their SECOND horn ( John Bimson as opposed to Principal Jeff Bryant)as the soloist in the third movement.

But what do Lancastrians know about brass, anyway? Black Dyke and Grimethorpe rule OK!

Post by prometheus August 23, 2005 (6 of 22)
nickc said:

Hi John
welcome - and congratulations on an excellent review!
We may very well be in a Spengleresque decline but if we keep buying we'll all have enough to last us for a while I hope!
Cheers
Nick

Thanks, sport and g'day: open a genuine--not licensed, thank you very much-- XXXX to celebrate my initiation!

I've not heard the Nott/ Mahler 5--though Lord alone knows how many hours he might take over the Adagietto--but the Bruckner 3 seems to have only minimal information in the Rears: ambience, reverb, hall effect, whatever. Not (forgive the pun) much of an advance over what you'd get on a decent synthesised multichannel rear output such as you have with DTS Neo-6.

Cheers (and no more Paul Hogan--promise!) JD

Post by Castor August 23, 2005 (7 of 22)
nickc said:

Hi Castor
I read somewhere that the Tudor/Nott performance literally puts you on the stage - is that how it sounds too you (do you listen in MC)?
Im also looking at buying the Pentatone - I've heard we are a fair way back in the hall - if you can remember the sound of either I'd love a heads up!
Cheers
Nick

Hi nickc,
The sound on the Tudor/ Nott seems less spacious to me than that on his Bruckner 3, but not excessively close in spite of the blurb in the booklet. This is probably due to the mic. placing, as both were recorded in the same hall. I am sorry to say that I did not find it as impressive as the Pentatone version either in recording quality or performance in spite of some good reviews (take a look at http://www.classicalsource.com/db_control/db_cd_review.php?id=2552) .
The downside of the Pentatone/ Haenchen is some slight audience noise and deafening applause at the end.It is set someway back but you get more of the excellent acoustic of the Concertgebouw in MC, which I use.

Post by Castor August 23, 2005 (8 of 22)
prometheus said:

"'Death in Venice' syndrome".....like it!!! Bogarde or Bernstein?!? I seem to remember the soundtrack utilised Kubelik--not usually prone to much in the way of indulgent excess--but I have neither heard that cycle nor seen the movie in many a long year.

Take care or we'll have all the political correctness types accusing us of belittling the Lord Britten!

The amazing thing about those horns is that I can think of no other orchestra which has felt able to use their SECOND horn ( John Bimson as opposed to Principal Jeff Bryant)as the soloist in the third movement.

But what do Lancastrians know about brass, anyway? Black Dyke and Grimethorpe rule OK!

Dear me, prometheus, never heard of Besses o' th Barn?

I agree that Kubelk was never prone to indulgent excess, but since the 'Death in Venice' soundtrack was played by the L'Orchestra dell'Academia Di Santa Cecilia conducted by Franco Mannino, it is not really an issue here.

John Bimson and the rest of the horn section on the Shipway version are amazing.
Incidentally the Tudor/Nott adagietto comes in at 11m. Also seems far too slow to me.

Apropos to British brass players, the Vienna Philharmonic have Ian Bousfield as their principal trombone and his superb playing can be heard on the Boulez Mahler 3.Sadly he comes from Yorkshire :)

Post by nickc August 23, 2005 (9 of 22)
prometheus said:

Thanks, sport and g'day: open a genuine--not licensed, thank you very much-- XXXX to celebrate my initiation!

I've not heard the Nott/ Mahler 5--though Lord alone knows how many hours he might take over the Adagietto--but the Bruckner 3 seems to have only minimal information in the Rears: ambience, reverb, hall effect, whatever. Not (forgive the pun) much of an advance over what you'd get on a decent synthesised multichannel rear output such as you have with DTS Neo-6.

Cheers (and no more Paul Hogan--promise!) JD

Hi John
After what your Lancastrian Freddie Flintoff is doing to our poor cricket team you have a license to crack as many puns as you like! :)
Cheers
Nick

Post by nickc August 23, 2005 (10 of 22)
Castor said:

Hi nickc,
The sound on the Tudor/ Nott seems less spacious to me than that on his Bruckner 3, but not excessively close in spite of the blurb in the booklet. This is probably due to the mic. placing, as both were recorded in the same hall. I am sorry to say that I did not find it as impressive as the Pentatone version either in recording quality or performance in spite of some good reviews (take a look at http://www.classicalsource.com/db_control/db_cd_review.php?id=2552) .
The downside of the Pentatone/ Haenchen is some slight audience noise and deafening applause at the end.It is set someway back but you get more of the excellent acoustic of the Concertgebouw in MC, which I use.

Thanks Castor
looks like the Pentatone for me!
Cheers
Nick
BTW I just received the new Pentatone Julia Fischer Prokofiev/Glazunov/Khachaturian violin concerto disc. I've just listened to the Prokofiev - great, smooth sound and Ms Fischer's violin sounds magnificent! Review coming...

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