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Discussion: Sibelius: Symphonies Nos. 2 & 5 - Vänskä

Posts: 234
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Post by hiredfox January 13, 2012 (81 of 234)
Chris said:

And yet simple things like sunsets and Whooper swans against sunsets are things that inspired Sibelius to write some of his greatest compositions.
IMO an appropriate cover.
And a nice change from all the "grey stuff" we've had from some other labels recently.
And by the 70s almost all the DGG and EMI covers were close up shots of Karajan.
The sunsets were more popular in the 50s and 60s.
Anyway these recordings could also be described as intoxicating, do give them a chance even if you don't like the covershot.
I am really happy they didn't use a shot of Vänska in his hockeyshirt? at the sessions.

I suppose the economics of the thing dictates that producers head to on-line pic libraries for many of their covers rather than employ creative talents. Sad necessity for most perhaps.

On the other hand if the artiste is the main selling point of yet another overly-familiar work (done to death?) in a highly competitive field of classical music then another mug-shot in a slightly different pose or hue is probably a very good signal to the buying public that this is another one that they should have. At least it was in the days of shops and racks!

Landscapes were all the rage in the 50's & 60's and sold discs even of poor merit but that was at a time when for most people widespread worldwide travel was still very much a dream for the future. We tend to forget historical context when we see it again later especially younger folk.

Post by bissie January 13, 2012 (82 of 234)
hiredfox said:

I suppose the economics of the thing dictates that producers head to on-line pic libraries for many of their covers rather than employ creative talents. Sad necessity for most perhaps.

On the other hand if the artiste is the main selling point of yet another overly-familiar work (done to death?) in a highly competitive field of classical music then another mug-shot in a slightly different pose or hue is probably a very good signal to the buying public that this is another one that they should have. At least it was in the days of shops and racks!

Landscapes were all the rage in the 50's & 60's and sold discs even of poor merit but that was at a time when for most people widespread worldwide travel was still very much a dream for the future. We tend to forget historical context when we see it again later especially younger folk.

I have abstained so far from participating in this quasi-debate, but.... Who said that this picture was free? It very definitely wasn't. We have spent a very long time over it, given the importance of this project. Who says that one person's taste is better than the next person's?
I actually love this picture (I dare to say so, because I didn't choose it) and I find it totally relevant to the repertoire chosen - it IS the Fifth, for crying out loud, read music history - and I find the composition on the cover really beautiful. Having said that, I fully accept that others don't agree, but why vomit all over this place (again, at that!!)?? It shows a deep disrespect to others and their taste. I totally buy the concept that a product is ALL the product, not only the sound, artistic proficiency, the sampling frequency, text or cover. But to make a whole post, just stating: "Dreadful cover. Can we please have Sibelius without swans in the future." is, apart from wrong interpunctuation, totally disrespectful, unnecessary, nasty, uncouth and provocative - as we say in Sweden: en fis på tvären (I will not translate that). Also he uses the word "we". If he is royal, it should be spelled with a capital W, if not, is he now the spokesman for a group of people??? If at the very least Mr. Vaan could have the courtesy to actually listen to the SACD first, then say whatever he thinks about the whole production, its merits and de-merits, but, no, the whole world has to read his very personal, uncontrolled floccinaucinihilipilifications.

I am also childish enough to wonder, if the person, who did not like this SACD (it has, at the time of writing, 1 of 2), actually has heard it. I have my thoughts, doubts and suspicions. It is easily one of the top 5 BIS productions alltime, and I cannot be that wrong.

This was very aggressive and perhaps unnecessary. Normally I don't stoop to this level, as everyone knows, but I am sick and tired, as is the office, of being bullied by this person, here and elsewhere.

Robert

Post by Vaan January 13, 2012 (83 of 234)
Yes Robert, you are very childish and unable to take criticism. Interpunctuation ...grow up. I am not alone in finding this, and many more, of your cover pictures dreadful. Hence we!.
Of course I will listen to the disc, but no matter how excellent the performance is it will not affect my view of the cheap cover. I haven´t received it and look forward to hearing it with keen anticipation. So I wasn´t the one who didn´t like it.

You often stoop to this level when someone doesn´t agree with you. And I couldn´t care less what you or your fellow workers at the office think about my opinions. If you feel bullied I suggest you seek help as I am merely airing my opinions, "here and elsewhere"!

Get off your high horse Robert and realize that it is perfectly right for people to disagree with you. And stop acting like a spoilt child.

Thomas

Post by flyingdutchman January 13, 2012 (84 of 234)
With you Robert, on this. Thomas has frequently acted this way, a spoiled and petulant child. Artwork is fine, it's the sound and performance that counts. Certainly, a pretty cover to look at is something that adds to the release, and the cover for this is beautiful. Maybe now we can get back to what matters--the music.

Post by bissie January 13, 2012 (85 of 234)
Vaan said:

Yes Robert, you are very childish and unable to take criticism. Interpunctuation ...grow up. I am not alone in finding this, and many more, of your cover pictures dreadful. Hence we!.
Of course I will listen to the disc, but no matter how excellent the performance is it will not affect my view of the cheap cover. I haven´t received it and look forward to hearing it with keen anticipation. So I wasn´t the one who didn´t like it.

You often stoop to this level when someone doesn´t agree with you. And I couldn´t care less what you or your fellow workers at the office think about my opinions. If you feel bullied I suggest you seek help as I am merely airing my opinions, "here and elsewhere"!

Get off your high horse Robert and realize that it is perfectly right for people to disagree with you. And stop acting like a spoilt child.

Thomas

And, as I did say, I have no quarrel with your disliking this and/or other covers. I do have a quarrel with your way of finding YOUR taste better than any others' - indeed the only acceptable one - and going out of your way to say this in an as insulting way as possible. You seem to thrive by it. Is this the only way you can feel important? That is a pity, as it is that you have been given the power to do that in writing in your profession. I certainly can take criticism, also hard criticism, but I do prefer to take it from someone that isn't merely trying to be as nasty as possible - here and elsewhere.


Robert

Post by Don Escoba January 13, 2012 (86 of 234)
IMHO it is an amazing interpretation and recording (I'm talking about the download version from eclassical.com, can't comment on the SACD.) I hardly ever heard a recording of a romantic symphony so well balanced, open and transparent. The brass is gorgeous. More of that please.

And I like the cover, although I too could have lived without the swans :-)

Post by Don Escoba January 13, 2012 (87 of 234)
IMHO it is an amazing interpretation and recording. I hardly ever heard a recording of a romantic symphony so well balanced, open and transparent. The brass is gorgeous. More of that please.

And I like the cover, although I too could have lived without the swans :-)

Post by Vaan January 13, 2012 (88 of 234)
Robert, you have used swans on covers for Sibelius quite a lot and I just thought it was a bit repetitive. I´m nor telling anyone what to think or saying that what I think is the only way.
Where am I nasty to you, ie BIS, "elsewhere"? Is it when I in a review points out that Malena Ernman´s voice isn´t lovely at one point in Nystroems Sinfonia del mare and that the producer should have demanded a retake? Or is it when I in an e-mail wrote that I heard a strange sound in a Prokofiev Piano Concerto. Or is it when I in a review hails the Litton Petrusjka/Rite a one of the best ever? Or when I wrote a glowing review of the Rosenberg/Venzago cd?
Or maybe it is when I in my wish list for 2012 wrote that I wished BIS would record some American music and Boris Tchaikovsky?

Thomas

Post by bissie January 13, 2012 (89 of 234)
Vaan said:

Robert, you have used swans on covers for Sibelius quite a lot and I just thought it was a bit repetitive. I´m nor telling anyone what to think or saying that what I think is the only way.

Thomas

Thomas,

if you had said just that, I wouldn't have had any negative reaction whatsoever. That is not what you said, neither in content nor - and more importantly - in tone - see page 7.

End discussion.

Robert

Post by Naun January 13, 2012 (90 of 234)
Osmo is signing copies of the new Sibelius disc after tonight's (January 13, 2012: Brahms) concert, according to the Minnesota Orchestra web site. Now, how do I get him to sign my download?

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