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Discussion: Kraftwerk: Minimum-Maximum (GSA Version)

Posts: 86
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Post by Epsilon May 16, 2008 (41 of 86)
Kutyatest said:

Iím fairly confident that thereís another (or at least used to be) another version, and I feel it might have been a German version. I have absolutely no idea what the difference would have been, because if the album is of the same concerts as the version I have (which I bought late last year in the UK), then I feel there would be (and could be) no difference in the languages.

The version I have has at least 3 different languages on it, those being English, German and Russian. I might be mistaken, but I have a feeling that a bit of Japanese is also present. Itís a really great album, although I have listened to it for a while. I think Iím correct to say that Autobahn is sung completely in German. I tend to forget. Some songs are mixed a bit.

I hope this helps.

It really is a superbly mixed album, and the sound quality is exceptional Ė particularly for a live album, I feel. I had to hunt around quite a lot for mine, and itís a shame if itís not readily available. Perhaps copies can be got hold of on eBay?

I think the language "version" refers only to the wording on the cover (i.e. track names and credits) and not how the songs are actually sung. (BTW. you forgot to mention French and Spanish being heard on the tracks - Tour de France, Numbers).

Why EMI deleted this item is beyond me. I had a hard time hunting down a copy of this SACD on the Net, too (eventually it came from Finland). It is extremely rare even on ebay.

Post by Kutyatest May 18, 2008 (42 of 86)
Epsilon said:

I think the language "version" refers only to the wording on the cover (i.e. track names and credits) and not how the songs are actually sung. (BTW. you forgot to mention French and Spanish being heard on the tracks - Tour de France, Numbers).

Why EMI deleted this item is beyond me. I had a hard time hunting down a copy of this SACD on the Net, too (eventually it came from Finland). It is extremely rare even on ebay.

Yes; I think you're right about those two other languages. I'd overlooked those, having not listened to it for a while. I did give it a little play last night, but stuck to The Robots, Pocket Calculator, and Dentaku. Wonderful!

Yes; I agree that it seems really odd that EMI should delete this title so soon after it was released (2006). I don't wish to stir up a debate that's not relevant to this thread (or cause a heated argument amongst hi-res fans), but I put most of it down to shortsightedness on behalf of the record labels. I don't have the facts in front of me right now, but I don't think I'm mistaken if I said there were four versions of this one album. There were, I believe two CD versions, an SACD hybrid version, and a DVD-V version. That seems daft to me to begin with. Now obviously, the DVD-V version appeals to those that want visuals, that's clear. But why have two CD versions and an SACD hybrid version? Why not just the SACD hybrid version? Other things I fail to understand is why Jean Michel Jarre's "Aero" album was issued with a CD and a DVD-V. I have asked myself many times, why not an SACD hybrid and a DVD-A? Exactly the same with The Beatles "Love" album!

It's clear that I have no understanding of the music industry, and the way it works!

Post by barmaleo June 30, 2008 (43 of 86)
Kutyatest said:

Iím fairly confident that thereís another (or at least used to be) another version, and I feel it might have been a German version. I have absolutely no idea what the difference would have been, because if the album is of the same concerts as the version I have (which I bought late last year in the UK), then I feel there would be (and could be) no difference in the languages.

There was a German version recently sold on ebay (along with the English one)

http://cgi.ebay.com/KRAFTWERK-MEGA-RARE-SACD-GERMAN-VERSION-MIM-MAX_W0QQitemZ260254502692QQihZ016QQcategoryZ46354QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/KRAFTWERK-MEGA-RARE-SACD-ENGLISH-VERSION-MIM-MAX_W0QQitemZ260254505252QQihZ016QQcategoryZ46354QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

To bate my curiosity, I contacted the seller - quoting his response below:

"Hello there. Thanks for the message. This German version is in "German" they singing in German and credit, album tracks etc, in German:-) Also German version has extra track on the disk 2 "Abzug" but English version has that track also but not an individual track. Medley with "Trans Europe Express" I have heard this SACD only printed a few thousand of them so, I guess pretty rare. I am fan of them but I have so many duplicate CD's thats why I am selling them.

The instrmental tracks are internationally same, but when they
sing in German they took the recordings from German venues.
So it is different places and so forth. But they are the Stones or
anything so pretty much sounded same tho.

- sketchshow"

So it means two different SACD versions do exist?

Post by The Seventh Taylor June 30, 2008 (44 of 86)
barmaleo said:

So it means two different SACD versions do exist?

That's what I also gathered from discussions about this elsewhere. Apparently they've done so with nearly every album they've released. With Minimum-Maximum, the same holds true for the CD and DVD as for the SACD release.

Post by miklet June 30, 2008 (45 of 86)
I have both SACD versions in my collection. Also have the very cool Deluxe CD + DVD box set that includes a hard cover book with many good photos related to live performance imagery. I had the standard DVD, but gave it to my son when I picked up the deluxe box set.

Original SACD - disk 1 10 songs, disk 2 12 songs UPC code 0946 3 34996 2 1
2nd release SACD - disk 1 10 songs, disk 2 13 songs UPC 0946 3 11828 2 2
CD + DVD box set - disk 1 10 songs, disk 2 12 songs UPC 0946 3 46057 2 4

Cheers

Post by Kutyatest July 1, 2008 (46 of 86)
miklet said:

I have both SACD versions in my collection. Also have the very cool Deluxe CD + DVD box set that includes a hard cover book with many good photos related to live performance imagery. I had the standard DVD, but gave it to my son when I picked up the deluxe box set.

Original SACD - disk 1 10 songs, disk 2 12 songs UPC code 0946 3 34996 2 1
2nd release SACD - disk 1 10 songs, disk 2 13 songs UPC 0946 3 11828 2 2
CD + DVD box set - disk 1 10 songs, disk 2 12 songs UPC 0946 3 46057 2 4

Cheers

It's really weird, I feel, because the music is in many ways not particularly musical. At least not in a "conventional" sense, that is. I'm extremely happy with my (UK?) SACD version, and it's so entertaining. It really does create the impression of being at a concert venue. Wonderful!

Post by The Seventh Taylor July 6, 2008 (47 of 86)
Kutyatest said:

It really does create the impression of being at a concert venue. Wonderful!

Does it for you? Although I'm not a purist I think the multichannel mix is 'too surround' for that -- the sort of mix you'd expect of a studio album but not a live album. With Kraftwerk's music I don't mind though.

Post by Kutyatest July 6, 2008 (48 of 86)
The Seventh Taylor said:

Does it for you? Although I'm not a purist I think the multichannel mix is 'too surround' for that -- the sort of mix you'd expect of a studio album but not a live album. With Kraftwerk's music I don't mind though.

It definately does as far as the "crowd-effect" goes, the way the cheering moves around the stadiums/concert halls. To be absolutely honest, though, I've never been to a Kraftwerk concert, so I'm not fully qualified to judge. My brother, though, went to a Kraftwerk concert in Brixton about 5 years ago. He has listened to a few bits of my SACD, and he commented upon how the sound at the concert did seem to move around, and back and forth - particularly with "Autobahn". Apparently, a very effects driven concert, which I feel suits the music very much. I've not seen Jean Michel Jarre in concert either, although his music (I feel) suits such treatment. It's very interesting, and I don't tend to analyse it very much - perhaps it's because the music is not produced by a group of "conventional" musicians, and that I can't associate a lot of the sounds with a particular known instrument. I feel sure that an agressive surround mix could suit a lot of Tangerine Dream's music - and I have seen them in concert twice. Tomita's "The Planets 2003" DVD-A makes full use of all channels, and I suppose it works for me again because of the "artificial" nature of the music. Like you with this album, I don't mind - it's wonderful.

Post by Epsilon July 7, 2008 (49 of 86)
Kutyatest said:

My brother, though, went to a Kraftwerk concert in Brixton about 5 years ago. He has listened to a few bits of my SACD, and he commented upon how the sound at the concert did seem to move around, and back and forth - particularly with "Autobahn". Apparently, a very effects driven concert, which I feel suits the music very much. I've not seen Jean Michel Jarre in concert either, although his music (I feel) suits such treatment.

Off topic

In 2004 at JMJ's concert in the Forbidden City in Beijing the seated audience was divided into many squares (with around 300 people in each of them) and separate surround speaker systems provided the surround sound for these 'cells' so that they could accurately position the direction of sounds. Interesting.

I heard his Oxygen tour this year also provided surround sound in the theatres (and he is planning the Eastern European leg of that tour to take place in October-November 2008- so maybe you will get a chance to see him in Budapest).

Although I would like to hear Tangerine Dream in surround mix (just imagine: Tangram, White Eagle or Logos on multichannel SACD... - that would be a delight!), I have been to many of their concerts but I don't remember any surround effects.

Epsilon

Post by The Seventh Taylor July 10, 2008 (50 of 86)
Kutyatest said:

I've not seen Jean Michel Jarre in concert either, although his music (I feel) suits such treatment.

I agree completely. The 5.1 mix of Oxygene for the 30th anniversary edition of the album sounds great. It's a crying shame they didn't release it on SACD.

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