Thread: SACD Player and AV Options

Posts: 41
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Post by ClassicalDJ May 12, 2012 (31 of 41)
Fitzcaraldo215 said:

No, you cannot apply EQ to MCH analog inputs on any Onkyo/integra productuct I am aware of. Stereo, yes, in some cases. But, Mch, no.

So what useful benefits are afforded by MCH analog output on a player and/or MCH analog input on a receiver? (both features narrow my search significantly and are costly.)

Post by hooperthom May 12, 2012 (32 of 41)
ClassicalDJ said:

So what useful benefits are afforded by MCH analog output on a player and/or MCH analog input on a receiver? (both features narrow my search significantly and are costly.)

I have a Denon 4311 and a Oppo 95, I tried DSD direct to Denon but can't use bass management so I don't like the way it sounds (no bass) so I just use 5.1 analog out of player to Denon. I know its PCM but it sounds wonderful.

Post by Fitzcaraldo215 May 12, 2012 (33 of 41)
ClassicalDJ said:

So what useful benefits are afforded by MCH analog output on a player and/or MCH analog input on a receiver? (both features narrow my search significantly and are costly.)

I personally do not feel there is any advantage to direct analog, unless you have a system architecture predicated on doing just that, e.g., a pricey player with just analog outs, like a Meitner, plus a Mch analog controller or Mch volume control. With almost any digital controller or AVR, I think HDMI is optimal.

I have listened to both analog out of my Oppo and DSD directly converted to analog by my prepro. They really do not sound all that good compared to HDMI and the use of Audyssey EQ. I think you will discover the same thing quite quickly.

Post by robstl May 12, 2012 (34 of 41)
ClassicalDJ said:

So what useful benefits are afforded by MCH analog output on a player and/or MCH analog input on a receiver? (both features narrow my search significantly and are costly.)

It made a much bigger difference back in the early days of SACD. Back then, we didn't have DSD over HDMI (I'm not even sure there WAS HDMI then, or if so, it was in infancy); the _only_ option when I started listening to SACDs was analog multichannel out from the SACD player to analog multichannel ins on the receiver.

Since the receivers couldn't do analog bass management, even if the player _could_ perform direct DSD-analog, if one didn't have five full range speakers equidistant from the listening spot, the results weren't optimal sonically. The early players that I got had the option of direct DSD-analog, OR converting to PCM for bass management, time alignment, etc.

I still have a functioning device that was my solution at the time -- Outlaw's "ICBM" -- which was an analog bass management device that took analog IN, routed bass below an adjustable frequency to the subwoofer OUTs, and then put analog OUT to the receiver's analog inputs. This didn't do time alignment, and had lots of cables (12 just to the ICBM), but it worked, and amazingly still works well a decade later. They don't make 'em like that anymore.

It is much simpler (one cable!), and I think sounds better in most cases, to use DSD over HDMI to a receiver with DSD->PCM processing for room correction. I'd recommend that you put the money saved on the analog outs/ins into some fancy surround/center speakers.

Good luck!
-Rob

Post by SnaggS May 12, 2012 (35 of 41)
Are there any 5.1 hdmi pre-amps with balanced outputs?

Post by Yoropiko1 May 13, 2012 (36 of 41)
SnaggS said:

Are there any 5.1 hdmi pre-amps with balanced outputs?

I beleive Onkyos home theatre surround Pre Processors have balanced outputs to connect to power amps with a similar connection. Oh and also the high end denon pre amp too although off the top of my head I cant remember the model numbers.

Post by Fitzcaraldo215 May 13, 2012 (37 of 41)
SnaggS said:

Are there any 5.1 hdmi pre-amps with balanced outputs?

Yes, most all have XLR outs plus unbalanced RCA's, except the cheapest Onkyo/Integra. Pretty much everything else does. Having futzed with unbalanced cable and RCA jacks for many years, balanced XLR is greatly preferable to me, in addition to handling long lengths far better and yielding a system with zero audible noise.

Post by Kal Rubinson May 13, 2012 (38 of 41)
Fitzcaraldo215 said:

Yes, most all have XLR outs plus unbalanced RCA's, except the cheapest Onkyo/Integra. Pretty much everything else does. Having futzed with unbalanced cable and RCA jacks for many years, balanced XLR is greatly preferable to me, in addition to handling long lengths far better and yielding a system with zero audible noise.

I agree but there are some others that lack XLRs. These include Rotel RSP-1572, Emotiva UMC-1, Primare SP-31.

Post by classicrecordings May 13, 2012 (39 of 41)
ClassicalDJ said:

Hello Everyone.

I have been a lover of classical music for quite some time but am just now beginning to explore the world of SACDs. Currently I am researching the ideal SACD/DSD playback setup. I would like the setup to double as a home theater system, so an AV receiver is a must. My overall budget for player, receiver, and surround speakers is around $1500 (though I might be convinced to go a little higher).

Regarding the SACD Player:
Is it correct that a current Sony Blu-Ray/SACD hybrid player will output pure multichannel DSD via HDMI if configured properly? What other considerations should be made when choosing a player?

Regarding the AV Receiver:
How important is the option for pure DSD to anolog output? There seem to be many conflicting statements online about which receivers will convert DSD to PCM rather than transferring a pure DSD signal to analog. Are there any receivers within my budget (>$500) that are reliably known to transfer DSD to analog without first converting to PCM? What other considerations should be made when choosing a receiver?

Since you want to go the receiver route with HDMI for multi-channel playback and DSD, I would really recommend that you look into Denon products that have Denon Link DL3 or DL4. You may be able to find something locally in the used market in the price range you are looking at. I have seen the 3808 receiver and 3930 player for sale and I think both of these would fit your needs nicely.

Of course this is only a personal opinion.

Post by yakman May 13, 2012 (40 of 41)
Fitzcaraldo215 said:

Good choices, I think. I would not get too carried away by yakman's kg by kg analysis. Before you know it, you will be spending a fortune that way. And, I am not sure the heaviest brand on the market is necessarily the best sounding or has the best features. But, I do agree that you want to get the highest model in any product line line that fits your budget. You should get better amps that way. At least, they will be somewhat more powerful. But, you will likely also be paying for added bells and whistles you likely will not need.

Ha, I'm not suggesting him to get five heavy metal mono blocks each bigger than his front loudspeaker. But for the budget ClassicalDJ allocated for the AVR, I would always choose a used higher range over a light weighted new with "fancy" feature.

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