add to wish list | library


11 of 11 recommend this,
would you recommend it?

yes | no

Support this site by purchasing from these vendors using the links provided below. As an Amazon Associate SA-CD.net earns from qualifying purchases.
 
amazon.ca
amazon.co.uk
amazon.com
amazon.de
 
amazon.fr
amazon.it
 
jpc

Discussion: Shostakovich: Three Concertos

Posts: 14
Page: 1 2 next

Post by canonical July 18, 2012 (1 of 14)
So, continuing on from a previous thread, we were seeking clarification as to whether the statement:

=========== "DSD Stereo mastered from original analogue sources" ==========

means

[A] Someone's grandmother provided them with an 'original' LP which they 'ripped'. Don't laugh --- this is apparently what Praga reportedly used as their source on other dubious issues such as their SACD release Dohnanyi: Variations on a Nursery Song etc. - Dohnanyi, Starker )

OR ...

[B] if they were provided access to the master tapes by Sony Columbia and the other copyright owners.

Polarius has kindly offered to make enquiries by emailing Praga ...

Any reply yet, Polarius ?

Post by hiredfox July 18, 2012 (2 of 14)
Well let's not be too cynical too soon.

These three concertos are outstanding transfers even the 1955 Oistrahk Mono recording. In fact these are as good as any analogue / digital conversions I've heard including earlier Sound Mirror offerings and Pentatone RQR and a lot more competent than some more recent exercises in the performing miracles arts.

In view of the line-up of dedicatees for these three Shstakovitch works this is a must have disc for all classical buffs on here. Sorry for the mch group as this one is made really for the HQ stereo people and believe you me nobody is going to be disappointed. It's a limited edition so grab it whilst it's there!

Post by canonical July 18, 2012 (3 of 14)
hiredfox said:

Well let's not be too cynical too soon.

Indeed ... looking forwards to the outcome of Polarius' detective work.

Post by Claude July 18, 2012 (4 of 14)
I hope this is a DSD transfer from the original master tapes.

What is a bit suspicious though is the fact that the back cover doesn't mention "recording licensed from Sony Music". That is usually the case with licensed reissues.

The recordings are in the public domain in the EU, so Praga could reissue them without permission from Sony. In that case they had to find source material themselves.

BTW, the back cover says "DSD mastered from original stereo sources", which is quite vague.

http://www.jpc.de/image/w600/rear/0/0794881896523.jpg

Post by Polarius T July 18, 2012 (5 of 14)
Claude said:

BTW, the back cover says "DSD mastered from original stereo sources", which is quite vague.

http://www.jpc.de/image/w600/rear/0/0794881896523.jpg

Yes, but their use of any non-French and non-Czech languages in general tends to be rather clumsy at best -- just check their awful, really awful booklet texts and you see what I mean. Worse than machine translated, and seemingly no editors involved at any stage.

And in any case it's in keeping with how they disclose these things in general.

Moreover, come to think of it, in their Richter Edition releases Rachmaninov: Piano Concertos Nos. 1 & 2 - Richter, Sanderling and Grieg, Dvorak: Piano Concertos - Richter, Kondrashin, Smetacek, which clearly state that the DSD mastering was from the original tapes, they don't acknowledge the copyright holder/licensor of that material, either (Czech radio, Melodiya, and I don't even know who owns the 1960 New York tapes -- Sony, again?). Not a good business practice, but so they seem to go about doing it.

I filled out their contact formula but haven't heard anything back yet. Knowing what those formula pages mean in practice for most companies in the field (or anywhere), I may just have to email them directly, however. Not sure how fluently they can handle Eng correspondence, though, judging from evidence.

Or someone else can do so who is more interested in such things. I've got my plate full with things right now that matter to me much more. (M. Claude, peut-être? Or the scandal mongers amongst us always sniffing for ways to go after large-scale consumer fraud by European and Japanese companies...?)

Hiredfox's comments on the sound quality of this Shosty release corresponds very closely to my own reaction to the Richter discs. They are outstanding in that respect, too, and I don't really care about too much else beyond that. Music is what matters the most anyhow, and that part never came across as beautifully as through these new releases.

Post by seth July 18, 2012 (6 of 14)
hiredfox said:

Well let's not be too cynical too soon.

Of course, but if they didn't go back to the master tapes, then I'll stick with the wonderful remastering Sony did with the cello concerto on CD.

Post by canonical July 18, 2012 (7 of 14)
Polarius T said:

I filled out their contact formula but haven't heard anything back yet. Knowing what those formula pages mean in practice for most companies in the field (or anywhere), I may just have to email them directly, however. Not sure how fluently they can handle Eng correspondence, though, judging from evidence.

Good to hear you have started the process. If they have trouble with English, perhaps I can help with a sample email in English and Czech that you could use, or adapt as appropriate ...

ENGLISH version
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear Praga

Can you please advise:
What was the original analog source for your new Shostakovich:Three Concertos PRD/DSD 350059 release?

To be precise, was the source:
a) an LP
b) the original master tapes owned by Sony Columbia and other copyright holders, or
c) something else

Looking forwards to hearing from you

Love and kisses
Polarius


CZECH version
============================================================



prosím Praga:
Jaký byl vodní analogový zdroj pro své nové Šostakovič: koncerty PRD / DSD 350059 ováním?

Abych byl přesný, byl zdroj:
a) LP
b) originální mistrovské pásky vlastní Sony Kolumbii a dalších autorských práv, nebo
c) něco jiného
Při pohledu dopředu se na jednání od vás

Láska a polibky xxx
Polarius

P.S. Seems the Zeus html translator doesn't handle extended ascii very well. Still, better than a Monty Python translation.

Post by Polarius T July 18, 2012 (8 of 14)
For me, the biggest draw would be the Mravinsky tracks, if indeed they are sonically impoved (which they should, in just about any new mastering). They are mono, however, not stereo.

Post by Polarius T July 18, 2012 (9 of 14)
canonical said:

Good to hear you have started the process. If they have trouble with English, perhaps I can help with a sample email in English and Czech that you could use, or adapt as appropriate ...

Yeah, why don't you. Over to you, and over and out for my part, then. The big dog there, however, is a Frenchman to all I know. Sorry for your effort wasted.

Report back when finished.

Post by Claude July 31, 2012 (10 of 14)
I received the SACD today and compared the cello concerto with the Sony Masterworks Heritage CD from 1998.

The Sony CD sounds a bit too bright, which emphasizes the tape hiss, while the Praga SACD sounds more muffled and distant, as if a copy of the master tape was used.

But the biggest difference is the timings:

Sony CD / Praga SACD:
- 1. movement: 6:29 / 6:22
- 2. movement: 10:38 / 9:49
- 3. movement: 5:32 / 5:23
- 4. movement: 4:43 / 4:28

As I trust Sony's mastering competence more than Praga's, I suppose the tape used for the Praga SACD was running too fast (or too slow during the recording, which should have been compensated during playback).

The violin concerto is a mono recording (understandably, as it's from 1956), but the back cover says "DSD mastered from original stereo sources" for the entire disc.

Page: 1 2 next

Closed