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Discussion: Francois Couperin - L'Oeuvre de Clavecin

Posts: 15
Page: 1 2 next

Post by canonical January 24, 2013 (1 of 15)
Please do correct me if I am wrong ... but this appears decidedly suspect.

> Recording type: PCM
> Originally recorded in 1987-1994

... so we have basically CD resolution recordings, being offered on SACD as what? The best we can hope for is the master, which in this instance appears to be basically a CD.

What's the point of placing this on SACD? Just gives the format a bad name.

Post by Lute January 24, 2013 (2 of 15)
canonical said:

Please do correct me if I am wrong ... but this appears decidedly suspect.

> Recording type: PCM
> Originally recorded in 1987-1994

... so we have basically CD resolution recordings, being offered on SACD as what? The best we can hope for is the master, which in this instance appears to be basically a CD.

What's the point of placing this on SACD? Just gives the format a bad name.

Good question, especially as this is a set of expensive single layer SACDs. ;-)

But... if true, does Canonical's idea mean that ALL of the digital CD recordings from the 1980s and 1990s are suspect and... None of them can be improved by DSD remastering and therefore they have no place on SACD???

Do any of the tech-savvy members here have a good answer???

Post by rammiepie January 24, 2013 (3 of 15)
Lute said:

Good question, especially as this is a set of expensive single layer SACDs. ;-)

But... if true, does Canonical's idea mean that ALL of the digital CD recordings from the 1980s and 1990s are suspect and... None of them can be improved by DSD remastering and therefore they have no place on SACD???

Do any of the tech-savvy members here have a good answer???

I just googled the question (when were the first 24bit digital recordings made) and on Steve Hoffman's forum it was stated that prior to the mid and late 90's, there were no 24 bit recordings....possibly 18 or 20 bit and more likely 16 bit.

Since the recordings you questioned were recorded prior to that time frame I would try to petition the company to come forward with the origin of the digital recordings, in question, prior to making a rather large investment in RBCD technology DSD mastered to SACD.

And good luck as the King International website is in Japanese......so a good project for you, Lute, who lives in Tokyo!

Post by AmonRa January 24, 2013 (4 of 15)
So what is new? There are hundreds of analog tape transfers to SACD also, and even the best tape, not to mention fifties tape, has much much worse dynamic and frequency range than 16/44 CD.

Post by Lute January 24, 2013 (5 of 15)
AmonRa said:

So what is new? There are hundreds of analog tape transfers to SACD also, and even the best tape, not to mention fifties tape, has much much worse dynamic and frequency range than 16/44 CD.

+1

Post by Lute January 24, 2013 (6 of 15)
rammiepie said:

And good luck as the King International website is in Japanese......so a good project for you, Lute, who lives in Tokyo!

THAT sounds like a difficult project!! ha ha ha!! ;-)

Actually, I DON'T have a question with this release. I am quite happy with the sound of this new SACD set. But...As I don't have the original RBCDs, I am unable to compare this set to the RBCDs. On the other hand, I do have plenty of other harpsichord recordings both old and new to compare it to. The sound is big and close-miked, as it seems are other harmonia mundi recordings of harpsichord music. But the harshness that is common with many harpsichord recordings is all but gone. The overall sound is very warm, realistic and open. In slower passages the notes gracefully hang in the air. Only in the conjested, quicker passages would a modern DSD recording really make any difference. Most of the time though, I feel that I am listening to a new DSD recording.

I think another reason for this new SACD release is because the RBCDs of these recordings are unbelieveably expensive. If I am not mistaken, today on amazon a used RBCD set goes for $499.98 and a new one for $1,599.99. So, the list price for these SACDs is not so bad...if you don't mind that the booklet is written only in Japanese.
My only complaint would be that King International could have put even more music on each SACD. I believe these are extended play single layer SACDs. Most of them have about 100 minutes of music each. But packaging is important here in Japan, so they made each of Couperin's 4 Books fit neatly onto 2 discs, which are kept in their own case.

I warmly recommend this release. Christophe Rousset's performance is magnificent.

Post by canonical January 25, 2013 (7 of 15)
AmonRa said:

So what is new? There are hundreds of analog tape transfers to SACD also, and even the best tape, not to mention fifties tape, has much much worse dynamic and frequency range than 16/44 CD.

On the plus side:
* A CD makes a better frisbee than an original master tape.

On the down side:
* Compared to a 96kHz/24 bit transfer of the original analog tape, ... to make a CD version of that analog tape, ... you have to throw out about 75% of the captured digital data ... just to fit the captured data onto a CD disc.

Why you care about the dynamic range of the 1/4 of the data retained by the CD format remains a mystery to me.

Post by canonical January 25, 2013 (8 of 15)
Lute said:

I think another reason for this new SACD release ...

In what way is this a SACD at all? I mean other than being stored on a SACD disc.

To the point, if I send you some mp3 files of me singing in the bathroom, recorded on my iPad ... stored on an SACD disc ... is it also an "SACD release"? Nup. All you have is a CD stored on an SACD disc.

Post by Claude January 25, 2013 (9 of 15)
Lute said:

I think another reason for this new SACD release is because the RBCDs of these recordings are unbelieveably expensive. If I am not mistaken, today on amazon a used RBCD set goes for $499.98 and a new one for $1,599.99. So, the list price for these SACDs is not so bad...if you don't mind that the booklet is written only in Japanese.

If I put my CD on the Amazon Marketplace for $10.000, the SACD would be an even greater bargain ...

Post by AmonRa January 25, 2013 (10 of 15)
canonical:
85% of that 24/96 digital data is random noise not worth keeping.

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