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Discussion: Berg: Violin Concerto "to the memory of an angel", Bartok: Rhapsody No. 2, Violin Concerto Sz.112

Posts: 23
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Post by Fugue August 17, 2013 (1 of 23)
Does anyone own the original releases? If so, are they sonically worthy of an SACD release?

Post by canonical August 17, 2013 (2 of 23)
Also, pondering as to what the source of this is, as with other Praga issues of older material? Did Praga have access to the original master tapes? Or did they get it off a used LP? Or from a CD? Or from a radio broadcast?

Post by Ubertrout August 17, 2013 (3 of 23)
It's my impression that Praga doesn't have access to master tapes for Sony-owned recordings like these; they're sourced from reel-to-reel tapes at best, like HDTT

Post by Polarius T August 18, 2013 (4 of 23)
Fugue said:

Does anyone own the original releases? If so, are they sonically worthy of an SACD release?

Berg or Bartok? I have the former, on CD, and the sonics are quite good even though the transfers for this label tended to typically be just so-so in the early going. Not as boxy and hollow as in many other CBS releases, and with good clarity, extension, and width -- altogether very enjoyable for its age, almost a standout; basically a better sounding recording than a lot of their even considerably later efforts.

Post by chenzl August 18, 2013 (5 of 23)
Ubertrout said:

It's my impression that Praga doesn't have access to master tapes for Sony-owned recordings like these; they're sourced from reel-to-reel tapes at best, like HDTT

Probably another sourcing from public domain. Better a Praga release than the majors keeping these classics under dust.

Post by Domimag August 18, 2013 (6 of 23)
written back : "DSD mastered from live broadcast sources".

In the notes :
"DSD mastered from original sources (quadraphonic tentatives)
SACD bi-channel (stereo) without artificial back effet."

anyway the sound is great !

Post by Ubertrout August 18, 2013 (7 of 23)
Domimag said:

written back : "DSD mastered from live broadcast sources".

In the notes :
"DSD mastered from original sources (quadraphonic tentatives)
SACD bi-channel (stereo) without artificial back effet."

anyway the sound is great !

That info on the disc is great, but...it's a lie.

Check out the recording dates, helpfully included on the info page for this disc. They predate quad by a wide margin. They're early Columbia stereo recordings which were commercially released, and are currently OOP but available cheap on the secondhand market, as linked to below.

Praga has a poor record with accurate descriptions of older sources. This release may well sound great...many HDTT releases sound great too...but it's just a commercial analog source transferred to SACD.

Links:

http://www.amazon.com/Bartok-Violin-Concertos-Isaac-Stern/dp/B000002A8I/?tag=sacdinfocom-20

http://www.amazon.com/Violin-Concerto-Chamber-Berg/dp/B000002A8K/?tag=sacdinfocom-20

Post by canonical August 19, 2013 (8 of 23)
Ubertrout said:

That info on the disc is great, but...it's a lie.
it's just a commercial analog source transferred to SACD.

What is a commercial analog source? Somebody's old record/LP? How do you know they didn't just get it off a CD, or off iTunes?

Post by Domimag August 19, 2013 (9 of 23)
Ubertrout said:

That info on the disc is great, but...it's a lie.

Check out the recording dates, helpfully included on the info page for this disc. They predate quad by a wide margin. They're early Columbia stereo recordings which were commercially released, and are currently OOP but available cheap on the secondhand market, as linked to below.

Praga has a poor record with accurate descriptions of older sources. This release may well sound great...many HDTT releases sound great too...but it's just a commercial analog source transferred to SACD.

Links:

http://www.amazon.com/Bartok-Violin-Concertos-Isaac-Stern/dp/B000002A8I/?tag=sacdinfocom-20

http://www.amazon.com/Violin-Concerto-Chamber-Berg/dp/B000002A8K/?tag=sacdinfocom-20

First, nobody force you to buy this SACD

Second, if you have proof of what you say, tell it to Praga :
http://www.pragadigitals.com/epages/265941.sf/en_US/?ObjectPath=/Shops/265941/Categories/ContactForm

We'll be glad if you can give us their answer !

P.S : what is an "commercial analog source" ?

Post by Claude August 19, 2013 (10 of 23)
Ubertrout is right. Praga doesn't license these Columbia recordings (otherwise this would be mentioned on the disc), so they have no access to master tapes.

Unlike the dozens of other european public domain labels who only release CDs and copy the music from existing official CDs, Praga releases SACDs. In order to justify the hi-rez format, they have to find a source better than CD. A potential source could be a commercial open reel release, or an old LP production master used by local pressing factories. They don't indicate what that source is (unlike HDTT), so we will always be wondering about that.

It's a completely different situation from old material being reissued by the original label or licensed by an audiophile label.

Unfortunately, most music fans and even professional reviewers ignore this important difference and perceive/present official and unlicensed reissues in the same way.

The public domain reissue business is biggest in the jazz field, where pre-1963 music is among the most popular, and classic albums reissues like "Kind of Blue" are being offered by a dozen different labels now.

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