Thread: Do all hybrid SACDs contain a stereo SACD?

Posts: 8

Post by recordhunter October 30, 2004 (1 of 8)
I am brand-new to SACD, having just bought my SACD player this week. I have all the Rolling Stones and most of the Bob Dylan SACDs. Most feature stereo SACD and regular CD, with a few of the Dylans also offering a multichannel SACD layer.

I was under the impression that *all* hybrid SACDs offered a stereo SACD/DSD mix, but the more I look at various new multichannel discs, the less certain I am. Most sites describe such discs as offering SACD in multichannel, but they don't state whether there's a stereo version of the music on the SACD layer.

For example, on the Acoustic Sounds site, all of the new Elton John SACDs are described in this way: "Format: Hybrid Multichannel SACD," and that's all it says.

The Universal site, however, says there are three formats on each of the Elton John SACDs (this is the best site I've found, btw, for understanding what's on each disc): http://consumers.umusic.com/sacd/future.html

You would think you could make the assumption that any hybrid SACD is going to have a stereo SACD layer, but I'm not sure.

There's a new Nick Drake compilation, about which his website says: "Nick's original producer and engineer, John Wood, has remixed and remastered all the songs as 5.1 surround versions and the release (on SACD) also comes with the original stereo remastered versions so that it is playable on any CD player."

Well, I don't want an original stereo remaster. I want SACD stereo, in DSD sound. But it doesn't look like that's what I'll get on the Nick Drake SACD. I can only wonder about most of the rest of what's out there.

Any clarification anyone can offer would be appreciated. If I need to buy three more speakers and a multichannel receiver -- which I don't really *want* to do, and I don't really have the room for -- I'd like to know.

Thanks in advance.

Jay

Post by LC October 30, 2004 (2 of 8)
This is probably something SA-CD manufacturers should clarify better in their promotion and labeling. Every SA-CD, single-layer or hybrid, stereo or multichannel, contains a stereo DSD playback section. The only recordings that don't play back in stereo are mono recordings, but those still use the stereo (i.e. two-channel) section of the disc (as far as I know, there are no mono discs that do or can play back through a center channel only).

Not exactly clear on your question about the Drake SA-CD. It will have a stereo DSD section. The original source is evidently not a DSD recording, but has been transferred to DSD for the SA-CD. How good that will sound, and how much better it will sound that the CD version, will depend in part on how the original recording was done.

Post by zeus October 30, 2004 (3 of 8)
recordhunter said:

I was under the impression that *all* hybrid SACDs offered a stereo SACD/DSD mix, but the more I look at various new multichannel discs, the less certain I am. Most sites describe such discs as offering SACD in multichannel, but they don't state whether there's a stereo version of the music on the SACD layer.

As per LC's response, you can just assume the disc contains a stereo DSD signal, whether it's a hybrid or not. There's no technical requirement to do so though and there are a few (very rare) exceptions. Also the CD-compatible layer, stereo and multichannel DSD segments can (and sometimes do) all include different tracks and/or originate from different mixes (witness Pink Floyd's DSOTM). This site will tell you what's on each disc, whether Stereo or Stereo/Multichannel. But if you're a stereo listener you really don't have to worry.

Post by mandel October 30, 2004 (4 of 8)
Basically the decision was made to include a stereo SACD on all SACDs rather than designing the players with the ability to fold the 5.1 track down to stereo (like how a lot of DVD videos work). Mainly because automatic fold-downs suck ass :)

Post by sound_labs October 31, 2004 (5 of 8)
It actually is in the spec that a stereo DSD version be on every SACD. There are two reasons for this. Since SACD doesn't fold down like DVD-A, it's needed for headphone listening, and if a SACD were only multi-channel, it wouldn't work on the very first SACD players (and even some current models) that are not multi-channel.

I've only seen one SACD that was 5.1 that didn't have a stereo DSD portion. It's a disc made outside of the US, and I think it was a mistake anyway. If there are others, I'm not aware of them.



- Tony




http://www.StrangerSoundLabs.com

Post by zeus October 31, 2004 (6 of 8)
sound_labs said:

It actually is in the spec that a stereo DSD version be on every SACD.

I've never seen this stated officially. Can you provide a reference?

Post by recordhunter October 31, 2004 (7 of 8)
sound_labs said:

It actually is in the spec that a stereo DSD version be on every SACD. There are two reasons for this. Since SACD doesn't fold down like DVD-A, it's needed for headphone listening, and if a SACD were only multi-channel, it wouldn't work on the very first SACD players (and even some current models) that are not multi-channel.

Here's what it says on the Nick Drake website, http://www.brytermusic.com/news.html , about the new multichannel SACD that prompted my question, A TREASURY:

"Nick's original producer and engineer, John Wood, has remixed and remastered all the songs as 5.1 surround versions and the release (on SACD) also comes with the original stereo remastered versions so that it is playable on any CD player."

I took this to mean that they get around the headphone and the fold-down issues by providing "the original stereo remastered versions." And that doesn't sound like a stereo SACD to me.

I've e-mailed the website, but haven't yet gotten a response. It's a weekend, though, so we'll see. I've e-mailed Acoustic Sounds twice in the past week, about this and other questionable discs, but they have yet to respond.

Post by LC October 31, 2004 (8 of 8)
recordhunter said:

"Nick's original producer and engineer, John Wood, has remixed and remastered all the songs as 5.1 surround versions and the release (on SACD) also comes with the original stereo remastered versions so that it is playable on any CD player."

I took this to mean that they get around the headphone and the fold-down issues by providing "the original stereo remastered versions." And that doesn't sound like a stereo SACD to me.

You're right - that is misleading. It makes it sound as though the disc contains only multichannel SA-CD and stereo CD. However, you can count on stereo SA-CD playback.

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