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Discussion: Goossens: Orchestral Works - Hickox

Posts: 22
Page: 1 2 3 next

Post by Windsurfer March 9, 2009 (1 of 22)
There is music that one is comfortable hearing. There is music that stretches the boundaries of your understanding. When it seems your boundaries are stretched perhaps you are listening to great music, perhaps to mere "truc". More than 30 years ago I decided that the Late Beethoven String Quartets were worthy of my attention even though at the time, it was necessary for me to record them to cassette tape and listen to them in the car during business hours - I was doing a lot of traveling as a "field biologist" back then.

Of course everyone knows the Beetoven ouvre is great music. That has yet to be said about Goossens works here. It takes an act of faith if one has no familiarity with the music not to be dismissive after reading Krisjan's review - but I wonder, I just wonder how familiarity with this music will affect one's judgment of it.

I think I will find out and report later.

Post by krisjan March 9, 2009 (2 of 22)
Windsurfer - I'm glad you brought this topic up. It is certainly a valid one in light of my own reactions to this release. I had the same reaction to the LvB late quartets as you did lo these many years ago. The difference for me is that even though I did not understand those works at first hearing, I was compelled to continuie listening to them. There was that inherent greatness that spoke through the notes that said I should keep trying and I'm glad I did. I have come to regard them (partcularly Nos. 13-15) as perhaps the piannacle of string quartet writing.

In the case of Goossen's music, I have absolutely no desire to hear the piano concerto again. There was nothing about that work that appeals to me. Perhaps I'll come back to the Sym 1 and give it another listen. I have a few other RBCD recording of his music including the Sym 2 and an early violin sonata. None of his output has enthralled me though the E minor sonata is more interesting than most of his other works I've heard. I know that this is very subjective subject matter and hence I expect this thread to generate a lively debate. I look forward to your own impressions.

Post by krisjan March 9, 2009 (3 of 22)
krisjan said:

...hence I expect this thread to generate a lively debate....

Huh, guess I was mistaken (crickets chirping)

Post by fafnir March 10, 2009 (4 of 22)
One of the many joys of retirement has been having the time a acquaint myself with music that I somehow missed in my first 50 years of classical music listening. Some of these music has been exceptional - the Asrael Symphony is a perfect example. Indeed, this site has been responsible for my acquisition of some wonderful stuff such as the works of Aho and most recently the Third and Seventh Symphony of Norgaard.

However, along with the good stuff have been a few duds. Normally it takes a few hearings before I can fully form an opinion of a new piece. The Weingartner Symphonies were given a fair chance and now reside on a hard-to-get-at spot on my shelves. I have listened to the Goossens disc twice. For me, the Piano Fantasy is of no interest whatsoever, and the Symphony is only marginally better.

I have often seen the remark that there is generally a good reason why certain composers are no long played - and I realize that there are a fair number of exceptions. On the basis of my experience thus far, it would seem that Goossens is not among the exceptions. However, I will give this disc another chance and hope for the best.

For what its worth, I think the sound is ok, but a little too distant and soft focused for my taste.

Post by Windsurfer March 10, 2009 (5 of 22)
Sadly, the pair of you are damping my resolve. BTW, what did you think about Jón Leifs' Edda on BIS? I also would be hard pressed to locate my copies of the Weingartner symphonies!

BTW how do you guys regard Finzi's Cello, Violin and Clarinet Concertos? His Symphony? There is where I would rather Chandos had expended their energies and resources - although some time ago they did do rbcds of at least some of if not all of the above.

Post by Windsurfer March 10, 2009 (6 of 22)
krisjan said:

Windsurfer - I'm glad you brought this topic up. It is certainly a valid one in light of my own reactions to this release. I had the same reaction to the LvB late quartets as you did lo these many years ago. The difference for me is that even though I did not understand those works at first hearing, I was compelled to continuie listening to them.

Well at first the only compulsion to keep on listening was that underlying knowledge that everyone else regards them as the pinnacle they are. As an aside, My God! How could I have been do thick? But persevere I did, and for me the opus 127 and 131 are personal favorites while I truly love the 130/133 and 135 as well.

Post by Peter March 10, 2009 (7 of 22)
krisjan said:

Huh, guess I was mistaken (crickets chirping)

Tumbleweed?

Post by Castor March 10, 2009 (8 of 22)
Krisjan’s reaction to these works in his review raises some interesting questions. Should a reviewer comment on whether the music appeals to him or her in their review?

In the guidelines given by Zeus it states:

‘5. Don't review music you simply don't like or is out of your typical genre(s). It's best not to be dogmatic about matters of taste.’

Maybe it is time to rethink this guideline (or not)?

I would not review a recording of any music that I was out of sympathy with as I feel it would inevitably influence (even subconsciously) what I had to say.
In the case of the Goossens Symphony, it is a work that I discovered many years ago via the David Measham recording on Unicorn. Even then it struck me as a masterpiece and I have not changed my view on this. The Phantasy, so far, has not made this impression on me.
Regarding the actual recording; it has often been observed on this site that Chandos SACD recordings are ‘cut’ at a lower level than those of other companies, and I would urge those who complain of lack of immediacy in the sound to turn up the volume and try again.

Thank you Krisjan for starting a stimulating discussion. Incidentally, like you I would highly recommend the Dutton Epoch CDs, particularly the Arnell symphonies, though I would rate them musically on the same level as, rather than superior to, the Goossens works.

Post by krisjan March 10, 2009 (9 of 22)
Well, there is a discussion taking place after all!

Fafnir - it appears that your reaction to this disc matches mine. FWIW, I too have the Weingartner syms and based on your comments it seems that I like them a bit more than you do. At least they have real melodies (though not particularly memorable ones) set in basic tonal centers. His orchestral music seems like a cross between Bruckner and Reger to me.

Castor - I buy lots of recordings of music that I don't already know. I have a couple of simple criteria that dictate what I generally avoid: no atonal, no pre-classical era. Other than that, I am pretty adventurous in my purchasing. As I mentioned, I had experience with Goossen's music from earlier RBCD releases and thought I'd give the latest Chandos SACD a shot. My review speaks for my reactions. Other's probably don't (and shouldn't) care whether or not I like the music. The point of my review was to try to describe the music on the SACD so that others might get a flavor for what it is like. I appreciate music reviews that make an attempt to describe the music in terms of who/what the composer is similar to. I would hope there is room on the review policy for this site to include these types of reactions and descriptions.

Post by krisjan March 10, 2009 (10 of 22)
fafnir said:

Indeed, this site has been responsible for my acquisition of some wonderful stuff such as the works of Aho and most recently the Third and Seventh Symphony of Norgaard.

A bit off-topic, but I am interested in knowing what the Norgaard symphonies are like. I am very familiar with Aho having most all of his symphonies on Bis but to tell the truth I am somewhat unsure about Norgaard. I was under the impression that he used atonal techniques in his composing. Can you set me straight with a description of the syms 3 & 7?
Thanks!

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