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Discussion: Falla, Manuel de - Katona Twins

Posts: 13
Page: 1 2 next

Post by mahlerei October 28, 2009 (1 of 13)
Thanks for the interesting review, raffells. I have one of the Katonas' earlier CDs and it's terrific.

What a pity Amazon UK lists this new disc as a DVD :(

Post by raffells October 28, 2009 (2 of 13)
mahlerei said:

Thanks for the interesting review, raffells. I have one of the Katonas' earlier CDs and it's terrific.

What a pity Amazon UK lists this new disc as a DVD :(

Yes I am a still a bit overwhelmed by this disc. I forgot to mention the Kitchen sink in the percussion/discussion.
I will in fact be buying another of their discs based on Pollys review.I think I have now read between the lines.
When I purchased the item on Amazon the seller actually emailed me ponting out it was an sacd and hinting strongly at his disgust with Amazon.
I may attempt to get Amazon to change their description through their usual channels.(Pun?) Dont really see it as my duty though.

Even though their is no video , their is a nice photo of the songstress.
Dave
ps submitted revision but it may still show under dvd category and sacd?.

PPS. Update mostly Failed..Amazon accepted the 57 minutes but as I did not put in a region code the rest could not be accepted.So its still officially a DVD.
lol.

Post by pgmdir October 28, 2009 (3 of 13)
Thanks for the heads-up on this. I just ordered it.

Bill

Post by hiredfox October 29, 2009 (4 of 13)
raffells said:

Yes I am a still a bit overwhelmed by this disc. I forgot to mention the Kitchen sink in the percussion/discussion.
I will in fact be buying another of their discs based on Pollys review.I think I have now read between the lines.
When I purchased the item on Amazon the seller actually emailed me ponting out it was an sacd and hinting strongly at his disgust with Amazon.
I may attempt to get Amazon to change their description through their usual channels.(Pun?) Dont really see it as my duty though.

Even though their is no video , their is a nice photo of the songstress.
Dave
ps submitted revision but it may still show under dvd category and sacd?.

PPS. Update mostly Failed..Amazon accepted the 57 minutes but as I did not put in a region code the rest could not be accepted.So its still officially a DVD.
lol.

How are you listening, stereo or Mch? My usual objection to Mch is that it can so easily descend into sonic spectaculars that exploit the technology rather than bring atmospheric subtlety to otherwise superb orchestral performances.

Oft-called "demo quality discs" in my experience can be amongst the very worst type of recording with exaggerated emphases everywhere completely detracting from the emotional content of the music. Mainstream is most often mainstream for a reason.

Your review was excellent but I rather conclude that the disc might have fallen into these traps?

Post by raffells October 29, 2009 (5 of 13)
hiredfox said:

How are you listening, stereo or Mch? My usual objection to Mch is that it can so easily descend into sonic spectaculars that exploit the technology rather than bring atmospheric subtlety to otherwise superb orchestral performances.

Oft-called "demo quality discs" in my experience can be amongst the very worst type of recording with exaggerated emphases everywhere completely detracting from the emotional content of the music. Mainstream is most often mainstream for a reason.

Your review was excellent but I rather conclude that the disc might have fallen into these traps?

Hi John,
My review is in stereo as shown.Thanks for the compliment.I do sometimes feel like giving up.
I could not agree more about your comments re the gimmickery.Somehow you must have missed my many posts stating something similair about surround.I ceased reviewing surround items and have dismantled and sold the surround system.This is quite a turnaround from someone who was actively promoting the subject for over 25 years.Very much against the tide in those days.
You will note I always try to be carefull in my descriptions and open with the warning plus the comments about what NOT to expect.It should be fairly obvious by now that my reviews are based on listening to discs as a musical event.Only adding background information when I felt it was helpfull to me.
As I pay for all my discs I do not feel obliged to provide an Information advertising service for the supplier and hence you will not see endless detail in justification in my normally "short and sweet" reviews.

I can assure you I also dont do demo discs? for exactly the reasons you state. though I occasionally buy one to see if any of the artists might be worth a punt.The Budapest Live is an exception.
As I am pretty keen and fairly knowledgable by my standards on some things Spanish.I have just returned from there.
(also other reasons, Life and soccer)So I didnt find this guitar based set of interpretations over the top or indeed exaggerated.Possibility the added percussion in replacement for an orchestra may be considered such in a few parts especially the kitchen sink?..I personally believe almost all Spanish music derives from guitar roots.
The recordings are very natural in their sonics,the performance does seem a bit special.Difficult to judge a set of arrangements but I feel as though I could put this disc on frequently,so that may help.
I do look forward to other peoples comments but I have to admit I skipped this disc based on its advertising first time around and only picked it up as filler,So I pressume a lot of other people might do the same.Shame as it is special.
It certainly is different to anything I have in a huge collection.Some of which will be sold to feed my addiction.
Dave

Post by channel October 29, 2009 (6 of 13)
raffells said:

Hi John,
My review is in stereo as shown.Thanks for the compliment.I do sometimes feel like giving up.
I could not agree more about your comments re the gimmickery.Somehow you must have missed my many posts stating something similair about surround.I ceased reviewing surround items and have dismantled and sold the surround system.This is quite a turnaround from someone who was actively promoting the subject for over 25 years.Very much against the tide in those days.
You will note I always try to be carefull in my descriptions and open with the warning plus the comments about what NOT to expect.It should be fairly obvious by now that my reviews are based on listening to discs as a musical event.Only adding background information when I felt it was helpfull to me.
As I pay for all my discs I do not feel obliged to provide an Information advertising service for the supplier and hence you will not see endless detail in justification in my normally "short and sweet" reviews.

I can assure you I also dont do demo discs? for exactly the reasons you state. though I occasionally buy one to see if any of the artists might be worth a punt.The Budapest Live is an exception.
As I am pretty keen and fairly knowledgable by my standards on some things Spanish.I have just returned from there.
(also other reasons, Life and soccer)So I didnt find this guitar based set of interpretations over the top or indeed exaggerated.Possibility the added percussion in replacement for an orchestra may be considered such in a few parts especially the kitchen sink?..I personally believe almost all Spanish music derives from guitar roots.
The recordings are very natural in their sonics,the performance does seem a bit special.Difficult to judge a set of arrangements but I feel as though I could put this disc on frequently,so that may help.
I do look forward to other peoples comments but I have to admit I skipped this disc based on its advertising first time around and only picked it up as filler,So I pressume a lot of other people might do the same.Shame as it is special.
It certainly is different to anything I have in a huge collection.Some of which will be sold to feed my addiction.
Dave

Dave,
Actually I had problems with this disc in that after having recorded a two day session with the twins alone, I was not too keen about adding a percussionist because it was so good just the way it was. Then we later recorded another session with the boys and the soprano. Pieter and zoltan really wanted the added percussion so we indeed invited a percussionist to come from Madrid spending two days dubbing in his parts. The boys made their own arrangements. They let this percussionist bring in his own ideas for the the tracks beforehand and was well able to play all the different instruments when he came.

For me the challenge was to make a mix. I am used to recording and mixing ensembles all at once with extra tracks of some of the instruments in case we need to do some fine tuning later. This project was another matter. We talked and listened to a good number of recordings of spanish ensembles to analyze which instruments are most important. Problem is these were all done in dry studios with a good deal of compression. (I recorded the Katonas in a wonderful church with natural acoustics - but the percussion in my living room!) It took a number of months of work to find a balance that we were all happy with.
I am of course pleased that you have discovered this release and enjoy it. I even enjoy listening to it though I would also have been happy to just have the guitars alone!
greetings
Jared

Post by pgmdir November 7, 2009 (7 of 13)
Well... The result is fabulous. And the use of multichannel is extemely involving--not goofy sounding theatrics.

Well done, Jared, and well done, Katonas. This is amazing Falla! As we might have said in the dark ages, "What a gas!"

Bill

Post by raffells December 8, 2009 (8 of 13)
channel said:

Dave,
Actually I had problems with this disc in that after having recorded a two day session with the twins alone, I was not too keen about adding a percussionist because it was so good just the way it was. Then we later recorded another session with the boys and the soprano. Pieter and zoltan really wanted the added percussion so we indeed invited a percussionist to come from Madrid spending two days dubbing in his parts. The boys made their own arrangements. They let this percussionist bring in his own ideas for the the tracks beforehand and was well able to play all the different instruments when he came.

For me the challenge was to make a mix. I am used to recording and mixing ensembles all at once with extra tracks of some of the instruments in case we need to do some fine tuning later. This project was another matter. We talked and listened to a good number of recordings of spanish ensembles to analyze which instruments are most important. Problem is these were all done in dry studios with a good deal of compression. (I recorded the Katonas in a wonderful church with natural acoustics - but the percussion in my living room!) It took a number of months of work to find a balance that we were all happy with.
I am of course pleased that you have discovered this release and enjoy it. I even enjoy listening to it though I would also have been happy to just have the guitars alone!
greetings
Jared

Dear Jared,


Thanks for posting the extra bit of insider interesting information. Ive no doubt there are obviously more revelations about this toe tapping release..
I am also glad you allowed the lads to have their way with the "uncompressed" percussion and It will be interesting to see other reviews from surround listeners and traditionalists alike.
As adoptations can be the cause of varying and contrasting opinions,to me, the question is Does it work? and would the composer have approved? seemed relevant here.Undoubtably Yes.

I have enclosed a helpful link with more details on the seven songs in the absence of the lyrics/translation
Ive no doubt some will appear in someone elses review.
http://www.fuguemasters.com/defalla.html
As regards the percussionist, who obviously must have this music in his blood ,I can only suggest you sign him up and add him to the twins next release,ie Maybe a similair approach to Albeniz music? It begs the question where next can the twins take their music from here.
I laughed at your comment re "dry sounding" in the context of Spanish music.Certainly not this year from the weather theyve had.
Personally I also had problems "editing" my review.
The words, crossover, effective,mixed,produced and presentation were all removed as it seemed they might be misleading even if slightly relevant.
Im not sure if your "new" equipment listed in a seperate topic was used.If not ? then the next release may be" frighteningly good."
Ive since decided that the very nice cover photo doesnt do justice to the disc as their is nothing Spanish about it.


further note ,
Based on other peoples advice I too record the drummer in my living room,the bassist in the bedroom the guitarist in the kitchen.
It speeded up the process no end with far less arguments.Though it disrupts the tea making.
The wife was in a seperate hotel.Vocals are added in the pub afterwards as the finest nuances of recording are lost when the lyrics containing "Lets kill all those M***fkrs is mainly part of the vocal attraction,Second only to the decibel level.
I then allowed them to have their say in the mix and once they are happy I go away and do my own thing.Being musicians they are pretty poor listeners as we have noticed from some of the other postings.
Welcome to the punk way of doing recordings?

Post by hiredfox December 8, 2009 (9 of 13)
Dave

On the strength of your review and recommendation, I now have a copy of this disc and it actually impresses in the way you suggested. Love it!

Thanks
John

Post by rammiepie December 8, 2009 (10 of 13)
A stunning, immersive, surround recording. The Katona Twins have done it again with their artistry and their vision. To be in the midst of these brilliant artists is what SACD is all about ---- A halographic experience and hopefully Channel will "stretch" a bit with future releases to let us know that the surround speakers allow for more than mere ambience. How about a similar excursion with Rodrigo's Concierto de Aranjeuz which is way overdue for a virtuoso performance?

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