Thread: What is the best multichannel SACD player????

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Post by electro July 25, 2013 (181 of 399)
electro said:

1. It's better to output analogue from the SACD Player rather than digital.
2. That means you need an SACD player with good quality analogue stages
3. You need EITHER (a). 5 full range speakers equidistant from the listening position and good room acoustics.

or (b). the ability to do DSP functions like bass management and time delay in the DSD digital domain without conversion to PCM.

Kal Rubinson said:

Don't hold your breath. By requiring maintenance of DSD (or even full-bandwidth HD PCM), you are demanding expensive features that are simply unimportant or invisible to so much of the market that what remains cannot support the effort.

Dumb it down a bit (as in most AVRs) and there's market volume. Bump it up and the licensing/engineering costs rapidly outpace the demand.

Keep it all analog, especially as stereo, (little or no licensing and mature engineering principles) and there's a market.

Kal, I read with interest your Stereophile articles on DSD DACs etc. I was in NYC recently and picked up both the last two with your Mytek x3 test and the "manufacturers comments" in the following issue.

1. I'm glad you are coming round to my belief - which started this huge thread - that it's better to listen to DSD direct to analogue without downconversion in an AV amp. :-)

2. I'm using your once recommended Parasound P7 with the Sony SCD XA9000es and the Oppo BDP95 as the two inputs. I note you have bought the AR multichannel - which is three times the price, but has 3 multichannel inputs, which would make space for a Mytek x3 solution. I'm interested in your views on the AR vs Parasound.

3. Is the Mytekx3 solution robust and can we FINALLY have in software a method to provide "time delay adjust" - to compensate for speaker distances?

4. Given the Mytek response, maybe they should be doing a special deal for 3?

5. Is a Mac software version available as I have a serious aversion to using Windooz!

Post by Kal Rubinson July 25, 2013 (182 of 399)
electro said:

1. I'm glad you are coming round to my belief - which started this huge thread - that it's better to listen to DSD direct to analogue without downconversion in an AV amp. :-)

2. I'm using your once recommended Parasound P7 with the Sony SCD XA9000es and the Oppo BDP95 as the two inputs. I note you have bought the AR multichannel - which is three times the price, but has 3 multichannel inputs, which would make space for a Mytek x3 solution. I'm interested in your views on the AR vs Parasound.

3. Is the Mytekx3 solution robust and can we FINALLY have in software a method to provide "time delay adjust" - to compensate for speaker distances?

4. Given the Mytek response, maybe they should be doing a special deal for 3?

5. Is a Mac software version available as I have a serious aversion to using Windooz!

1. I am entertaining that concept but I have not adopted it. There are, as always, other variables.

2. I bought the AR because of the multiple multichannel inputs. Otherwise, I would have gone with the Parasound.

3. Yes, robust. No, one cannot, as yet, have distance correction.

4. Ask them.

5. Not that I know of but I suspect it is possible with jRiver/MAC. Ask Mytek.

Post by tailspn July 25, 2013 (183 of 399)
electro said:

3. Is the Mytekx3 solution robust and can we FINALLY have in software a method to provide "time delay adjust" - to compensate for speaker distances?

Have a look at Signalyst:

"Speaker configuration for multichannel playback (delay and level) for PCM and SDM (DSD)"

http://www.signalyst.com/consumer.html

Post by electro July 25, 2013 (184 of 399)
Kal Rubinson said:

1. I am entertaining that concept but I have not adopted it. There are, as always, other variables.

2. I bought the AR because of the multiple multichannel inputs. Otherwise, I would have gone with the Parasound.

3. Yes, robust. No, one cannot, as yet, have distance correction.

4. Ask them.

5. Not that I know of but I suspect it is possible with jRiver/MAC. Ask Mytek.

Thanks for rapid response!

There is also this - I imagine you are looking at this already? In fact I think you mentioned it in one of your articles?

http://www.exasound.com/e28DAC/e28DAC.aspx



RE. Audyssey

My old AV processor which was introduced in 2003 (Tag McLaren AV32 Dual processor) can process room correction internally at 24/96, but despite this, it still has a negative effect on voices in particular, increases vocal sibilance, which is why I decided to correct the room instead, and then correct the subwoofer, using an Antimode DSP. The room corrections I have carried out have been extensive including making "live end - dead end" setup with electrostatics with big distances to walls and the dead end behind the front speakers. It works really well. I removed 2/3 of the drywall ceiling and replaced it with 9" of rockwool, covered with frames with speaker grille cloth stretched over them, and big thick velvet curtains around 8ft behind Quad 2905s.

Have you got you SACD's ripped yet? I can put you in touch with a US guy that does this as a business.

Post by electro July 25, 2013 (185 of 399)
Thanks for this - I will be downloading this and trying it out.

Post by Fitzcaraldo215 July 25, 2013 (186 of 399)
electro said:


RE. Audyssey

My old AV processor which was introduced in 2003 (Tag McLaren AV32 Dual processor) can process room correction internally at 24/96, but despite this, it still has a negative effect on voices in particular, increases vocal sibilance, which is why I decided to correct the room instead, and then correct the subwoofer, using an Antimode DSP. The room corrections I have carried out have been extensive including making "live end - dead end" setup with electrostatics with big distances to walls and the dead end behind the front speakers. It works really well. I removed 2/3 of the drywall ceiling and replaced it with 9" of rockwool, covered with frames with speaker grille cloth stretched over them, and big thick velvet curtains around 8ft behind Quad 2905s.

Treatments plus EQ, usually mainly in the bass for room modes, is probably the ideal solution. That is what I would do in my ultimate, hit the lottery room. There are two reasons I do not do it now and rely on full range EQ only.

First, if I am going to do treatments, I am going to be sure that they are done right. That means exercising the same care with the resulting sonics that I would in purchasing any component. That, in turn, means learning a great deal about what works and what does not in treatments, which, in turn, means learning a great deal about measurement tools and how to use them. They are out there today in inexpensive PC based tools, but learning how to interpret their results and fix the problems is considerably more difficult. Frankly, I would rather just listen to some more music than go down that rabbit hole. So, I would rather just pay a well chosen expert to do that for me one day when I can afford it. I think EQ will still add sonically to the result, in any case, but might not have to work as hard at all frequencies. Is that important sonically? You do not know until you try it.

Second, the work involved in fixing the acoustics becomes greatly magnified if you are concerned about the appearance of the room and hiding and integrating the acoustical treatments. They can be pretty ugly if this is not attended to, but the effort and cost increase substantially.

Call me lazy, but I am just not willing to invest the time and effort in this major undertaking. Right now I can just flick the EQ off and on and hear quite obviously what it does, which is substantial. It is breakthrough technology based on good science, and it works with much less learning, effort, disturbance to room appearance, etc. Is it just as good as a treated room? You don't know until you try that.

As for EQ systems, I think they have come a long, long way since 2003 and your McLaren, based on ever advancing chips that are much more capable. Are they going to get even better? Absolutely, but history tells us it will be at an ever diminishing rate. So, I will just upgrade as appropriate to newer, better EQ as it becomes available, along with other improvements at the same time. That is, unless I hit the lottery and I can have my room be rebuilt by experts for comprehensive acoustic treatments.

Post by Kal Rubinson July 25, 2013 (187 of 399)
electro said:
There is also this - I imagine you are looking at this already? In fact I think you mentioned it in one of your articles?

http://www.exasound.com/e28DAC/e28DAC.aspx


Have you got you SACD's ripped yet? I can put you in touch with a US guy that does this as a business.

Yes, I have the e28 now.

Yes, I have begun ripping. Only a couple of thousand left to do. :-{

Kal

Post by zeus July 25, 2013 (188 of 399)
Kal Rubinson said:

Yes, I have begun ripping. Only a couple of thousand left to do. :-{

As you're no doubt aware, this is in breach of the format's inbuilt copy protection. Further discussion on this will see posts deleted and possible revocation of posting rights. This is clearly stated in the forum posting guidelines and not a matter for further discussion.

Post by Kal Rubinson July 26, 2013 (189 of 399)
zeus said:

As you're no doubt aware, this is in breach of the format's inbuilt copy protection. Further discussion on this will see posts deleted and possible revocation of posting rights. This is clearly stated in the forum posting guidelines and not a matter for further discussion.

Agreed. In my defense, I was provoked. :-)

Post by Bobpaule July 28, 2013 (190 of 399)
Kal Rubinson said:

1. I am entertaining that concept but I have not adopted it. There are, as always, other variables.

2. I bought the AR because of the multiple multichannel inputs. Otherwise, I would have gone with the Parasound.

3. Yes, robust. No, one cannot, as yet, have distance correction.

4. Ask them.

5. Not that I know of but I suspect it is possible with jRiver/MAC. Ask Mytek.

Hi Kal,

Sorry did not have time to reserch, but did you get the AR MP1 preamp? If yes, others should know that it is about the only fully balanced multichannel preamplifier, correct?

I too wanted the Parasound P7 until I realized it was not balanced, and since my A1UDCI only has balanced stereo out, along with my belief in biamping I ended up integrating a Classé CP-700 in processor bypass mode, with great results.

Forgive me but I believe in minimalist processing, I have absolutely no LFE or room correction in my system where I can avoid it. Thankfully my Paradigm Signature system is faithful, the 24Hz (DIN) LFE on the mains helps a lot.

Just a deviation, I was ignoring DVD-Audio all these years until Tipper's Surrounded landed in my lap, amazing, just amazing how good MLP MCH can sound. I just discovered quadraphoniquad too, I guess I will have to build more shelving in my already crowded basement.

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