add to wish list | library


7 of 7 recommend this,
would you recommend it?

yes | no

Support this site by purchasing from these vendors using the links provided below. As an Amazon Associate SA-CD.net earns from qualifying purchases.
 
amazon.ca
amazon.co.uk
amazon.com
amazon.de
 
amazon.fr
amazon.it
CDJapan
 

Discussion: Wagner: Der Ring des Nibelungen - Furtwängler

Posts: 37
Page: prev 1 2 3 4

Post by manticore4 March 5, 2012 (31 of 37)
Joseph Ponessa said:

Yes, I made the mistake of getting the Gebhardt release of the RAI Ring only a month before the SACD release was announced. The only advantage to that arrangement is that I am able to answer your question. The Gebhardt is a well-mastered CD set, and uses the common technique of boosting the low frequencies to avoid cut-off of note decay and ambient sound. Unfortunately what you get as a result is more sound of musicians bumping music stands and the like (no problem from the audience, however) rather than more musicality. The SACD does not have to resort to such measures and so the sound wave is realistic from top to bottom.
I gave the Gebhardt away and can't recheck, but my impressions were strong at the time and I am comfortable with my conclusions: the Gebhardt is as good as CD will get, but the SACD is a big step up.

X2

I agree with Joseph on this. The Gebhardt release of the 1953 RAI Rome Ring is sourced from vinyl (presumably LPs), which in itself is not necessarily bad. However, many people (myself included) find the sound very glaring and harsh, and especially congested in loud passages compared to EMI RBCDs. As far as I know the current EMI Japan SACD release is from the broadcast acetates and/or a tape backup of the acetates, and is superior in every way to both the Gebhardt and early-1990's EMI RBCD release.

These new SACDs, while using the best sources available, do not come close to sounding as good as the 1955 Keilberth stereo Bayreuth Ring as released by Testament on RBCD. That 1955 Bayreuth Ring was recorded with the intention of a commercial stereo release, while the 1953 RAI Ring was originally compiled only for radio broadcast.

Again, there are limitations in the sound of much of the 1953 Ring, and parts of it will always have those deficiencies. The present SACD release is significantly better than any incarnation of this material that I have heard.

Post by petrushka1975 March 6, 2012 (32 of 37)
Thank you all for sharing your views. I went ahead and ordered a set from CDJapan! I'm not completely confident that EMI will ever release this set in the West and I'd rather pay the premium and get the import now than to regret down the road.

I did some research on the sources behind this transfer, and to the best of my knowledge:

- The original RAI session tapes were destroyed/recycled after the broadcasts were made. A metal master was made prior to the tapes' destruction and has been kept in the archives.

- In the 1970s tape copies of the metal master were given to EMI in preparation of the vinyl release. As to whether the vinyl release did use these tapes, I'm not sure. Apparently Furtwangler's widow was in possession of a separate set of vinyl pressings made from the metal master and that could have been used too.

- In creating the current SACD transfer, Simon Gibson and his team went to EMI's vaults and discovered several tape copies of the metal master. They chose the initial (first generation?) set given to EMI by RAI due to the superior sonics, especially in the high frequency details. This set was for some reason not used in the 1990 CD transfer. All of this is apparently in the booklet that comes with the Japanese SACD set. I found a transcript on HMV Japan's product page.

- The recently reissued RBCD set by EMI essentially uses the same (inferior) master of the 1990s RBCD release

Post by petrushka1975 March 6, 2012 (33 of 37)
This is the Google translation of the transcript I read

========================

I created a copy of the recording tape them for EMI Italy Association was broadcast in 1972. The archives of EMI, but there is a tape of several sets, we set (this was decided to use the first set was sent from the Association of Broadcasters in Italy re-mastered for the CD is "ring" in the year 1990 when it is is not used). This decision There are several reasons, all of which are involved in sound quality. "Original" these tapes, than those used in re-mastered in 1990, has rich, the sound quality with a spread much of the high-frequency component, the sound over broadband much better about the orchestra for voice I think that I can provide.
This recording is what was done for radio broadcasting, has suffered some technical constraints of the time. It exists some changes in the balance between the performer, at times, there is also a certain moment of distortion. We, as part of the process of re-mastering, reducing them carefully, was removed.
High-resolution conversion from analog to digital is also made ​​it possible to achieve better sound quality than before. To finish the re-mastering, make a careful equalization using the analog EQ excellent EMI Abbey Road Studios, these opera became the sound quality is great now than ever before.

Abbey Road Studio
Simon Gibson

Post by Polarius T March 7, 2012 (34 of 37)
petrushka1975 said:

I went ahead and ordered a set from CDJapan!

You're in for something very special!

Cheers,

PT

Post by derwanderer September 17, 2012 (35 of 37)
The text of this post has been deleted by the moderator. Reason:

-Vendor link removed, please don't do it - remaining text quoted:

I have read your review about this SACD and I decided to get a cheaper version from membran for only 20 euros in Europe.

It has been a great smash for me to discover this version as it is not comparable to anything I listen to before.

So the next step would be to buy the SACD version in Japan. Nevertheless, as the investment is quite heavy, I would like to listen to some excerpt in order to be sure about the sound quality gain.

Would it be possible to get just several minutes sample to judge about the sound quality. I understand that such request could be strange and time consuming for you but I cannot find anything on the Web. So Furtwangler fans is my last hope !

Sorry if I disturbed you, I understand that your time is also precious.

Best regards.

Post by Rory56 October 25, 2012 (36 of 37)
Hi, I am new here.
I agree with all you say, Polarius.
As for the RAI Orchestra's ability to reflect Furtwängler's intentions (questioned by another member of the community), it should be recalled that the Maestro had a special preference for Italian orchestras, as it has been reiterated by his wife in an interview. I guess he would have not felt that way if those orchestras had not been able to carry out his intentions.
I am also 100% in favour of this performance of the Ring over the La Scala one and the interpretative skills of Mödl are vastly superior to those of many others before and after. I have always felt that the 1950 recording has been overrated thanks to the historical prestige and tradition of that House and the presence of Flagstad and Lorenz in the cast (both way past their prime).

Post by jdaniel October 25, 2012 (37 of 37)
Rory56 said:

Hi, I am new here.
I agree with all you say, Polarius.
As for the RAI Orchestra's ability to reflect Furtwängler's intentions (questioned by another member of the community), it should be recalled that the Maestro had a special preference for Italian orchestras, as it has been reiterated by his wife in an interview. I guess he would have not felt that way if those orchestras had not been able to carry out his intentions.

Yes, the "La Scala" Orchestra--established in Bakersfield, California around 1947-- can't hold a candle to a "real" Italian Orchestra.

Page: prev 1 2 3 4

Closed