Thread: DGG on SACD

Posts: 41
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Post by tailspn August 4, 2005 (31 of 41)
pentaman said:........
Best post of the year, IMHO. Thanks and best success.

Tom

Post by deckerm August 4, 2005 (32 of 41)
Oscar said:

I think that for serious music lovers the equation is simple: stick with SACD´s releases, and ignore as much as possible the rbcd´s. It is not that difficult, after all, I supose all of us have substantive cd collections already.
Also, I think that in general, the new releases seldom achieve the artistic standards of "older" recordings. As a proof, see the great success of the Living Stereo SACD series.

With this pressure, it may be possible that the "big" ones get the message. For the time being, my money is with Pentatone, Linn, Hyperion and the others,

regards,
Oscar.

This is my strategy precisely

Post by tream August 4, 2005 (33 of 41)
peteyspambucket said:


Also, I also want to know why Pentatone's recordings consistently have bland, text-only covers. I know there are other priorities but why not make the albums more attractive so that someone might be more apt to pick one up who might not already know the raison d'etre of the Pentatone label?

Petey, look at the covers of the Pentatone releases here on this site - quite a few of them have more than text-only covers. The text-only theme seems to be confined mostly to the RQR's and not even 100% of those.

Post by mdt August 4, 2005 (34 of 41)
pentaman said:

mdt, you are absolutely right that the introduction and subsequent promotion was a disaster. The reason is threefold;

1) there was no good co-operation between the harware and software industry. (You may remember that when CD was introduced Philips owned Polygram and Polygran was "forced" to release a substantial number of titles in all genres and to use its majr artists (Karajan!) as ambassador for the sytem.
2) there was no unanious strategy amongst the stakeholders (not evene between Sony and Philips)how to market/promote the system. SA-CD is a complex technology. It not easy to communicate the essential added value in a simple way. For the introduction it had been best to start with the SA-CD form which brings the biggest improvement compared to CD: new DSD multichannel recordings on hybrid disc. If Sony and Philips had teamed up with the majors and made sure that at the launch there was a substantial number of new multichannel recordings avilable on hybrid disc, then the consumers and retailers might have understood the added value of the system. Instead we saw a variety of SA-CDs (stereo/multichannel/single layer/hybrid). Some of the recordings on the SA-CD layer were derived from PCM others from DSD masters. The message was far too complcated.
3) there was a competing system (DVD-A) which confused everybody further.

Nevertheless, we at PentaTone see a lot of positive developments and are confident that the sytem will gradually replace RBCD in particular in the classical market segment. A few reasons:

1) Notwithstanding the chaos in the first several years there is a growing number of classical labels releasing an increasing number of titles every year. Also the number of manufacturers of play-back equipment and the number of players on offer continues to grow.
2) Almost all labels now release on hybrid disc and the number of DSD multi channel recordings grows. More and more labels are moving to single inventory.
3) the classical artist community has embraced the technology and puts pressure on the record companies to record in multichannel DSD for release on SA-CD. At PentaTone we are approached by many excellent artists who come to us specifically because of the way we work. The fact that some orchestras have started their own label and release on SA-CD confirms this tendency.
4) The chaos of different types of SA-CDs has disappeared. Most companies restrict for new recordings to multichannel/hybrid disc which has made the message simpler. This combined with the fact that DVD-A has almost died has generated renewed interest. In the next (award) issue of Gramophone there will be a supplement dedicated to SA-CD. For the first time SA-CD will not anymore be put side to side with DVD-A.

So please stop complaining that the professionals do it all wrong. You are right, many professionals have done a bad job, but there are enough professionals left(in particular amongst the indies) who believe in SA-CD and continue to make great new recordings and promote them within the restrictions dictated by their busgets. Consumers always go for the best. I think it to be encouraging that the system has survived so far and continues to grow notwithstanding the way it was handled in the early days. It may not become a mass market product, but for those segments of the music market where quality matters it is there to stay.

Sorry for this far too long "cri de coeur".
Pentaman

Never mind the long "cri de coeur", its nice to see someone in the industrie with true dedication.

I'm not saying that the profesionals do it all wrong. But unfortunately those with the bigest market share, and therefore bigest influence, do it wrong (imo). Doesn't your own statement, that orchestras are starting their own labels, confirm that?
I agree with you on the indies, my remarks were about the majors.
Unfortunately many music listeners associate classical with, out of all, the major that is now backing of from SA-CD. Because of this, and above all because of the great artists of the past, whose recordings are largely in the hands of the majors, it is also important what they due.
I was also largely refering to retailers, and not only to the beginings of SA-CD. Still now i see nothing done to promote the format at the retailers and that's where the direct contact with the consumer takes place. I even hear sentences like "no one want's that, it aint gonna come". I still think that the product should be advertised and propagated in the record stores similar as it is done with new recordings.
However, hearing that the musicians recognise and seek quality recording makes me hope. Maybe the classical scene can experience a renaissance by going over to indies and artists producing themselves, leaving the majors with the mass product market, in which case i hope all of classical and jazz will move away from theme.

Post by stvnharr August 4, 2005 (35 of 41)
Oscar said:

I think that for serious music lovers the equation is simple: stick with SACD´s releases, and ignore as much as possible the rbcd´s. It is not that difficult, after all, I supose all of us have substantive cd collections already.
Also, I think that in general, the new releases seldom achieve the artistic standards of "older" recordings. As a proof, see the great success of the Living Stereo SACD series.

With this pressure, it may be possible that the "big" ones get the message. For the time being, my money is with Pentatone, Linn, Hyperion and the others,

regards,
Oscar.

Yes, I too do it this way.

Post by stvnharr August 4, 2005 (36 of 41)
pentaman said:

It may not become a mass market product, but for those segments of the music market where quality matters it is there to stay.

Pentaman

Pentaman,
Very well stated!!!!
And as long as this holds true, all is well.

Far too many of the posts and threads on sacd's "failure" have been more about how it hasn't become a mass market success, as though all products have to be so.

Hats off to Pentatone for caring about quality and putting out quality products!

Post by dsdreamer August 4, 2005 (37 of 41)
Bravo for that cri de coeur; it resonates pretty strongly with me and, I suspect, with a large part of the SA-CD buying public. Truth has a way for doing that.

I have recently been buying batches of 10 Pentatone discs and carefully listening to them before purchasing another batch. It is a pleasure to be able to collect and enjoy important parts of the core repetoire without the previous limitations imposed by 16 bits and 44.1kHz. Moreover, you have some outstanding talent recording for you, thinking particularly of Julia Fischer, Mari Kodama & the Russian National Orchestra.

Keep up the good work.

--dsdreamer

Post by toddao August 5, 2005 (38 of 41)
peteyspambucket said:

Since Pentaman is watching this thread, I would officially like to publicly beg for Decca's quad recordings from Bernard Herrmann of his Hitchcock music, great film classics, fantasy movie music, and the haunting soundtrack to Brian De Palma's Obsession. The latter has always sounded very poorly on analog and CD because of the heavy use of organ and chorus and I long for the day in which I can hear it in greater clarity.

Please??? I'm begging and it's not pretty. :-)

Also, I also want to know why Pentatone's recordings consistently have bland, text-only covers. I know there are other priorities but why not make the albums more attractive so that someone might be more apt to pick one up who might not already know the raison d'etre of the Pentatone label?

I can only join in the begging! The thought of those Herrmann classics in SACD quad is pretty mind blowing.

Post by Johnno August 8, 2005 (39 of 41)
pentaman said:

Dear Castor,

EMI (when asked a year and a half ago) refused to license its quad recordings. My guess is that they wait and see how SA-CD develops and keep the option open to do it themselves. Testament is stereo. That falls in another category.

Best,Pentaman

When you say "my guess is that they will wait and see how SA-CD develops" how do we define "wait" in this context? Months -- years????

Post by tream August 16, 2005 (40 of 41)
pentaman said:

DG will probably be a lot more complicated. For a start we do not know what they may have recorded in surround and further it is against DG's policy to license recordings to third parties.
Best,Pentaman

What about Speakers Corner, which issues 180 gram LP's from (among others) DG sources? How are they able to do that if licensing to third parties is against DG's policy?

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