Thread: SACD Clicks through the speaker on playback

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Post by Hitters January 11, 2012 (11 of 34)
GROOT GELUID said:

A click between tracks on playback of a SA-CD is a players fault and not an "issue a design related problem, inherent to SACD playback".
We spend hours in mastering taking out similar clicks, whether they are acoustical or electrical, and a player should not introduce new ones on playback.

Thanks for your info. OK, then, it is a player's fault. But it is interesting that all machines I have owned presented the very same problem. Might be a firmware issue? I have read in this forum that updating the firmware of the Oppos took the clicks away.

Post by GROOT GELUID January 11, 2012 (12 of 34)
All our older Sony's and the very old Philips players are/were ok. I now use an Oppo BDP-95 at home, and it has not the clicks between tracks.

Post by Gravissima January 12, 2012 (13 of 34)
Thanks for all of these replies, it is nice to know that i am not alone in having heard it.

What is comppletely unacceptable is that the use and promotion of a high-resolution format as such, which has issues with the quality of playback is completely unacceptable. That the noise floor is so low on SA-CD means that a click between tracks is more obviously audible.

I hope that some manufacturers read this forum, it would be an education for them. Marantz dismissed my dealer when he took it up with them saying that it must be a Sony problem. I'm not really sure what Sony's response to this might be, although Chandos Records have spoken with DADC in Austria who have expressed an interest in the matter and have asked for master tapes from the to investigate further. This is more responsible that Marantz (by all accounts too!) who seem not to be interested in the machine once it has left their distribution depot.

If you are reading this Maratnz, a straight-forward bit of firmware work and a downloadable fix would be the right thing to do!!

Post by hiredfox January 12, 2012 (14 of 34)
Gravissima said:

Thanks for all of these replies, it is nice to know that i am not alone in having heard it.

What is comppletely unacceptable is that the use and promotion of a high-resolution format as such, which has issues with the quality of playback is completely unacceptable. That the noise floor is so low on SA-CD means that a click between tracks is more obviously audible.

I hope that some manufacturers read this forum, it would be an education for them. Marantz dismissed my dealer when he took it up with them saying that it must be a Sony problem. I'm not really sure what Sony's response to this might be, although Chandos Records have spoken with DADC in Austria who have expressed an interest in the matter and have asked for master tapes from the to investigate further. This is more responsible that Marantz (by all accounts too!) who seem not to be interested in the machine once it has left their distribution depot.

If you are reading this Maratnz, a straight-forward bit of firmware work and a downloadable fix would be the right thing to do!!

It seems those 'clicks' have really got to you. Pity really if it is interfering with your musical enjoyment.

We don't know how old you are but we well worn chaps weened in the 'good old days' of vinyl & acetate(!) took it for granted that it was a good day if the click, pop & bang interludes numbered less than 50 per track.

Oh, how times change. Seems John Adams is on to something.

Post by DSD January 12, 2012 (15 of 34)
Hiredfox I can't directly relate as none of my SACD players ever had a clicking problem (Sony DVP-S9000ES, Xandak SCD-2, Yamaha DVD-S1700, DVD-S1800). The Sony and Xindak developed TOC reading issues, however the Yamaha's play perfectly with every single disc.

I wanted to comment on Vinyl, I always took great care of my LPs, used a VPI record cleaning machine and returned any new LPs that had "ticks or pops" for replacement as I hate those since they take me away from the musical illusion. I bought audiophile LPs and Imports to get the quietest surfaces possible. I love the sound of analog but I hate audible surface noise, pops and ticks!

Post by Polly Nomial January 12, 2012 (16 of 34)
DSD said:

I love the sound of analog but I hate audible surface noise, pops and ticks!

You can't have it all ways! Or were you talking about wow & flutter as the bit you love?

Post by Celebidache2000 January 12, 2012 (17 of 34)
Inter-track (SACD)clicking seems to be a relatively new phenonmenon and does not seem to have been widely reported until manufacturers started switching to blu-ray transports.

Contrary to other opinions, I think that the use of (certain) blu-ray transport mechanisms precipitated these issues.

I am not sure that firmware totally "cures" these issues either as previous cures have created a host of new problems.

Official Oppo BDP-83 SACD/DVD-A Playback Anomaly Thread
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1225658

Post by Hitters January 12, 2012 (18 of 34)
Celebidache2000 said:

Inter-track (SACD)clicking seems to be a relatively new phenonmenon and does not seem to have been widely reported until manufacturers started switching to blu-ray transports.

Contrary to other opinions, I think that the use of (certain) blu-ray transport mechanisms precipitated these issues.

I do not agree. I have been experiencing this clicks on Pioneer players (circa 2002), Cambridge Audio (circa 2005) and Marantz (2009-2010). So I believe it has nothing to do with blu-ray transports.

Of course it is a MINOR issue. As other members state, while listening to vinyl, we had to deal with dozens of pops and clicks in between tracks. And of course I still prefer the clicks on SACDs to un-clicking RBCDs.

But it is quite interesting that this phenomenon is not present on RBCD players.

Post by AmonRa January 12, 2012 (19 of 34)
Hitters said:

But it is quite interesting that this phenomenon is not present on RBCD players.

Not in properly working ones. It does happen with some cheap players it the track marker is not at the frame junction (one second has 75 frames). For this reason most CD mastering software place the marker at the junction even if you try to place it elsewhere typing in exact timecode. Some cheap CD-players also have a short mute before a track starts to prevent clicks, but fortunately I have never had such a player. It would be also quite annoying with classical. People who master pop & rock genre have to take this into account and always have 0.2-0.5 seconds of quiet at the begging of tracks.

I think one reason why SACD players have this problem is that preventing it requires a bit more careful programing and buffering. With DVD & BR it does not matter and is less noticeable with pop-rock. Nobody remembers us classical listeners who listen through the disk and expect the sound to be consistent also between the tracks (as the track marker is often there just for convenience, not to separate different "songs").

Post by Gravissima January 12, 2012 (20 of 34)
Interesting thoughts. But when you consider it is a high-quality source and a step beyond CD, why should it have clicks introduced? How much care do studios take to ensure clicks are not introduced to master-tapes prior to manufacture? A matter a great importance!

I grew up with LPs (a baby of 1962) and am going back to vinyl in a big way, so clicks generally don't worry me, but when they appear on an SA-CD, an otherwise click-free format, that is just plain wrong!

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