Thread: SACD Clicks through the speaker on playback

Posts: 34
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Post by Gravissima January 12, 2012 (21 of 34)
Here, Hear! [sic]

Post by hiredfox January 12, 2012 (22 of 34)
Celebidache2000 said:

Inter-track (SACD)clicking seems to be a relatively new phenonmenon and does not seem to have been widely reported until manufacturers started switching to blu-ray transports.

Contrary to other opinions, I think that the use of (certain) blu-ray transport mechanisms precipitated these issues.

It can't be that, Marantz use a purpose built solid metal transport for the SA-7.

Post by Celebidache2000 January 12, 2012 (23 of 34)
I was not referring to any of the Reference series models. The lower end "Pearl" players are using the Pioneer-sourced transport (Xyron- which may be the source of the issues).

Post by Hitters January 12, 2012 (24 of 34)
AmonRa said:

Not in properly working ones. It does happen with some cheap players it the track marker is not at the frame junction (one second has 75 frames). For this reason most CD mastering software place the marker at the junction even if you try to place it elsewhere typing in exact timecode. Some cheap CD-players also have a short mute before a track starts to prevent clicks, but fortunately I have never had such a player. It would be also quite annoying with classical. People who master pop & rock genre have to take this into account and always have 0.2-0.5 seconds of quiet at the begging of tracks.

I think one reason why SACD players have this problem is that preventing it requires a bit more careful programing and buffering. With DVD & BR it does not matter and is less noticeable with pop-rock. Nobody remembers us classical listeners who listen through the disk and expect the sound to be consistent also between the tracks (as the track marker is often there just for convenience, not to separate different "songs").

Thank you, AmonRa, for the interesting information. Sounds plausible.

Post by DSD January 12, 2012 (25 of 34)
DSD said:

I love the sound of analog but I hate audible surface noise, pops and ticks!

Polly Nomial said:

You can't have it all ways! Or were you talking about wow & flutter as the bit you love?

I'm not fond of wow & flutter either. What I like most about the best analog is the smooth gorgeous string tone and impact of high percussion instruments. Plus analog recordings offer a very high comfort level if the format artifacts don't become audible. Unfortunately this happens too often with LPs.

I didn't really get into LPs until after the invention of CDs, before that I was strongly in the "tape" realm. My first stereo when I was a teenager was a 8-Track cartridge player/amp and two speakers later upgraded to a Teac Reel to Reel playing exclusively 7½ips prerecorded tapes and later replacing that with a Nakamichi cassette deck to play prerecorded audiophile cassettes.

I had to sell my Nakamichi cassette deck and all my audiophile cassettes in 1983 to raise the $900 to pay for the Sony CDP-101 CD player (I have always been dirt poor), this is perhaps the biggest mistake of my entire life since I was first impressed with the quietness of CD however within six months I was no longer able to suffer their sound. So I sold it, I later started my first LP collection. Since I don't like the artifacts or care and feeding of LPs the hunt-down was on for a digital format that I could enjoy listening to. And the rest is history.

Post by Johnno January 12, 2012 (26 of 34)
Arnaldo said:

I never once heard a click in between tracks from my Sony SCD-XA5400ES, before or after a VSE clock mod. Although unfortunate for the few users affected (apparently early Oppo and a few Marantz), this issue is being blown out of proportion against an overwhelming majority of problem-free players.

Neither have I -- nor on my cheaper Sony XB940 or XE597.

Post by Kutyatest January 13, 2012 (27 of 34)
Admittedly my Arcam DV137 is the first hi-res player Iíve owned, but this problem as you describe it is unknown to me.

Do you have both analogue and digital outputs (e.g. optical or coax) connected? I ask, only because I seem to remember having clicking problems at various times when I first had my player in late 2006. Not in the same way as you describe (as best as I remember), but when selecting different options on a disc (whether CD, SACD, DVD-V or DVD-A). Another problem at this time was when I played an audio disc - CD or SACD - the first second or two of music was missed after I pressed the ďplayĒ button - accompanied by a click. With DVD-As, the problem only manifested itself as a click.

My technical knowledge and experience is limited on these things, but I am someone that tends to read instruction manuals before using equipment. Having said this, I had slightly overlooked something in the userís guide, showing what connections Arcam recommended. Basically, even though Arcam recommend using the analogue outputs for all audio sources (whether hi-res or otherwise), it is suggested that a digital audio connection should also be used. Once I made the extra connection, the aforementioned problems disappeared. I think part of this problem had nothing to do with the player as such, but mainly to do with my Arcam AVR350 receiver. Apparently, the AVR350 gives priority to a digital audio signal over an analogue signal, even though analogue is what Arcam recommend. This was the cause of both the clicking and the missing music, caused by the AVR350 receiver trying to locate a signal coming in from the DV137 - and switching between a digital connection that wasnít present - before locating the analogue inputs, by which time a second or two had passed. The reason that DVD-As were not affected is due to the fact that music doesnít typically happen immediately, as thereís a lead in of silence initially. As a source of part of this problem, that makes sense to me - although why it might cause the other clicking Iíve no idea. Since early 2007, I have all 8 analogue outputs connected from player to amp, in addition to dig-coax which I almost never use. I have my HDMI output set to video only, which goes straight to my display.

Iíve done my best to relay these things as best as I remember, and have no idea whether they might be related to your problems. My player also had several software upgrades from new until 2008. I hope you find a solution though, as I can imagine it causing some irritation. Hopefully this has been of interest to someone.

Post by Fitzcaraldo215 January 13, 2012 (28 of 34)
Celebidache2000 said:

Inter-track (SACD)clicking seems to be a relatively new phenonmenon and does not seem to have been widely reported until manufacturers started switching to blu-ray transports.

Contrary to other opinions, I think that the use of (certain) blu-ray transport mechanisms precipitated these issues.

I am not sure that firmware totally "cures" these issues either as previous cures have created a host of new problems.

Official Oppo BDP-83 SACD/DVD-A Playback Anomaly Thread
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1225658

No, the BDP-83's ticks were completely and totally cured, as were the other anomalies. If you read through to the end of that anomaly thread, it's been inactive since last February. I still have mt 83, in addition to a 93, which never had the problem. There is not much sonic difference between the two, as far as I can tell, via HDMI.

Post by ClassicalDJ November 20, 2012 (29 of 34)
I have the Sony BDP-S590 player, and I have experienced these "clicks" between SACD tracks since I started using it. The player is set to convert DSD to PCM, since my Denon AVR2312CI will not accept DSD over HDMI. I have performed all prompted updates. Is this something that cannot be helped? Will switching to DSD output mode fix this (assuming I acquire a receiver that will at least accept and convert a DSD signal over HDMI)?

Post by Iain November 20, 2012 (30 of 34)
ClassicalDJ said:

I have the Sony BDP-S590 player, and I have experienced these "clicks" between SACD tracks since I started using it. The player is set to convert DSD to PCM, since my Denon AVR2312CI will not accept DSD over HDMI. I have performed all prompted updates. Is this something that cannot be helped? Will switching to DSD output mode fix this (assuming I acquire a receiver that will at least accept and convert a DSD signal over HDMI)?

You should have waited until current Denon model year. All Denon AVR from AVR-2313 and up now support DSD input over HDMI.

Have you applied latest firmware updates to both BDP-S590 and AVR-2312? This may resolve problem.

BTW, I'm running DSD mode of Sony BDP-S770 and Pioneer DVD-610 to AVR-3313 via HDMI. Don't have clicks between tracks with either model.

EDIT: I also didn't get clicks using PCM mode with same players and predecessor to current AVR (Denon AVR-3310).

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